Liminality At The Park

[JC_Chalant]

The ball court’s rusted hoops, stooped 
under the weight of dusk, watch the moon-
cloud shadows swoop across concrete.

Nearby, in the dark, children launch 
screams from park swings and flail, awkward
as mid-flight moth wings, before pinpoint landings.

Underneath the pagoda, teens smoke marijuana
and the skunky aroma wafts strong as their coughs
across the trail where the wind picks up over the stream.

Deer in the low grass stare, heads turned,
white tails bare, until I’ve stepped too near
and they zip away quicker than sparks disappear.

[busker]

The ball court’s rusted hoops, stooped 
under the weight of dusk, watch the moon-
cloud shadows swoop across concrete. … not sure about “under the weight of” is. Why is the dusk heavy? While lots of possibilities exist, the question isn’t explored in the rest of the poem, and this line remains a puzzling, weak metaphor. Otherwise, a fine opening 

Nearby, in the dark, children launch 
screams from park swings and flail, awkward
as mid-flight moth wings, before pinpoint landings. … this is excellent. My only grouse is the simile of children as moth wings rather than moths.

Underneath the pagoda, teens smoke marijuana
and the skunky aroma wafts strong as their coughs
across the trail where the wind picks up over the stream. …. This too is excellent 

Deer in the low grass stare, heads turned,
white tails bare, until I’ve stepped too near
and they zip away quicker than sparks disappear. … the ending doesn’t quite do it for me. It’s disconnected from the rest of the poem, and makes it read like a shopping list of individual observations 

Hi JC - this is a fine poem, but lacks a certain unity

[JC_Chalant]

Hi jeffalot and busker, thank you both so much for the insightful critiques of this poem. It's encouraging to hear that the atmosphere and imagery landed well in many places, and much of what was trying to be conveyed was done so successfully. I also appreciate knowing spots where the poem didn't get there, which is incredibly helpful. I understand the comment around a cohesion that's missing from the poem, a through-line to bring it all together, and will keep that in consideration.

In fact, you've each given me a wealth of considerations. Word/verb selections, syntax arrangements, shifting densities of the poem. I tend to revise slowly (painfully so sometimes) and I'll be grateful to have your thoughts to consider in those moments. Again, just plain useful to see what's standing out and what's causing pauses or raising questions, and different perspectives on the piece as a whole. Much appreciated again.

[palifan]

Hi hi

The ball court’s rusted hoops, stooped 
under the weight of dusk, watch the moon-
cloud shadows swoop across concrete.
I like the “weight of dusk” but why is it weighty? Is it because it means for the children playtime is over? That would be a great image but I’d spell the metaphor out more clearly. The hoops here are watching the shadows but later “I” is the central point of view which disrupts the flow a bit.
Nearby, in the dark, children launch 
screams from park swings and flail, awkward
as mid-flight moth wings, before pinpoint landings.
I love the image of kids jumping from swings. I always encourage motion as a both a grounding tool and to give action and energy.
Underneath the pagoda, teens smoke marijuana
and the skunky aroma wafts strong as their coughs
across the trail where the wind picks up over the stream.
Great stuff but if you say “the trail” and  “the stream” readers are going to stop and say “what stream?” “What Trail?” And will expect more information because “the” makes them sound important as if the preceding lines were leading up to this stream and trail instead of them being just part of the background. or do you mean the stream of smoke?
Deer in the low grass stare, heads turned,
white tails bare, until I’ve stepped too near
and they zip away quicker than sparks disappear.
This last stanza seems from a different piece and suddenly “I” is introduced.

I really enjoy your imagery.  I suggest focusing the images a bit meaning give a bit more detail. For example the kids flailing their arms like moth wings, why are both awkward? Are they unsure they’ll stick the landing, are they uncertain of the destination. 

Great images and atmosphere! I just want more! Nice job!

[PotatoFridges]

The ball court’s rusted hoops, stooped 
under the weight of dusk, watch the moon-
cloud shadows swoop across concrete.
I like this imagery a lot, and the words you used, particularly stooped.
"watch the moon-
cloud shadows"
Is this creating a compound word (the moon-cloud shadows), or is it an en dash (watch the moon --- cloud shadows...)? It's unclear to me.

Nearby, in the dark, children launch 
screams from park swings and flail, awkward
as mid-flight moth wings, before pinpoint landings.

Underneath the pagoda, teens smoke marijuana
and the skunky aroma wafts strong as their coughs
across the trail where the wind picks up over the stream.
this stanza was a bit hard to parse for me - the way I read it was "as their coughs across the trail", interpreting 'across' as a verb (the aroma wafts strong, while their coughs cross the trail ...) in which case across would need to be 'cross'.
It's more likely, though, that you meant it like "wafts across the trail (as) strong as their coughs". In which case, I feel it could be arranged differently to guide the reader through the sentence with more ease. Additionally, I feel you could find a better adjective to describe the aroma & the coughs - 'strong' could be a bit plain.
I think ironing it out a bit and shuffling things around a little would benefit this stanza.

Deer in the low grass stare, heads turned,
white tails bare, until I’ve stepped too near
and they zip away quicker than sparks disappear.
This stanza feels quite different in tone from the others. It has a rhyme at the end (near/disappear) which feels somewhat cheesy due to the rest of the poem lacking a rhyme scheme. It also shifts from a seemingly third person view to first person (using "I've") in this last stanza. 

Overall I think this is a really nice poem, I like the imagery a lot but just think it could use some tidying to help the reader along.

[Johicopter]

The ball court’s rusted hoops, stooped 
under the weight of dusk, watch the moon-
cloud shadows swoop across concrete.

Nearby, in the dark, children launch 
screams from park swings and flail, awkward  So they scream from the park swings? If that's what you mean then that's fine, but it confused me for a second because the sentence also makes sense without "screams"
as mid-flight moth wings, before pinpoint landings. "Children flail before landings" feels a little awkward to me. Maybe flail into landings?

Underneath the pagoda, teens smoke marijuana
and the skunky aroma wafts strong as their coughs
across the trail where the wind picks up over the stream.  This is the only line in the poem where there is no obvious assonance or feeling of "flow" (see general comment below). It stood out to me as it kind of halted my rhythm of reading through the poem.

Deer in the low grass stare, heads turned,
white tails bare, until I’ve stepped too near
and they zip away quicker than sparks disappear.  This comparison leaves me wanting more. You could end it with "zip away" and the visual would be the same. Also perhaps to me, the metaphor seems to lose its power if you are just going to use the word "disappear" anyway.

I really like the imagery here and I especially liked the way you grouped words with similar sounds together, i.e. "hoops" and "stooped" and "pagoda," "marijuana," and "aroma." It creates a really interesting, near-rhyming effect that is especially fun to chew on when the poem is read aloud and keeps the momentum of the poem going.

In terms of the last stanza, I have two main interpretations:
A) This is simply a fourth vignette in this park nighttime scene. If this is the case, I would relate it spatially to the other three stanzas. Are they across the stream? Do the deer hear the screaming children?
B) It is a metaphor for all of the other observations. The narrator observes the kids and the teenagers but they can't get too close because they are worried that they might spoil the scene, like how one watches deer from afar. In this case, the last stanza can be read as having a message about observing and appreciating from a distance so as not to tamper with the "spark" of the scenes one is witnessing, which I find fascinating, especially if it wasn't totally the intention. This is my theory for why "I" is not introduced until this last stanza. I appreciate the ambiguity of interpretation and don't wan't to ruin it, but if this interpretation is the case, I might suggest doing more to break up the pattern of [location] [subject] [verb] in the first line of all of the stanzas except the first one. This would separate it slightly and make a shift to a more metaphorical place clearer.

Again, very good poem, love the imagery.

[JC_Chalant]

Thanks for the critique, Johicopter. Appreciate the insights on what's working and where there is some confusion. I'll be able to keep this in mind as I rework.

[milo]

Hello

Liminality is actually a new word for me and it is a good one at that, the definition is an ambiguous transitional state kind of like between 2 distinct phases.  Obviously where we get subliminal from.  It reminds me of "entre chien et loup" which we discussed somewhat on this board.  

The ball court’s rusted hoops, stooped 
under the weight of dusk, watch the moon-
cloud shadows swoop across concrete.

The sonics throughout are pleasant, you have obviously paid attention to the sound.  Line breaks are solid. You are also doing an odd thing with the meter throughout and I don't know if it is intentional or not as it isn't held to so I am not sure if you want comments on it.  For the first triplet, we get iambic, anapestic, iambic.  Now you may just land here naturally due to the assonance but it is strange enough to call out.  "moon - cloud shadows" is nice, nice break as well.  I have a standing distrust with anthropomorphism but it doesnt seem to be an issue here.

Nearby, in the dark, children launch 
screams from park swings and flail, awkward
as mid-flight moth wings, before pinpoint landings.

there is some confusion here.  children are launching screams from park swings or are they launching?  The first just means they are screaming but the strophe definitely ends suggesting they are jumping from swings.  It seems likely they are consistently screaming and launching.  Also, shouldn't the children be in bed at night or at least home?  I mean it is a transition period so I suppose it is dusk and they are not ready to go in yet.  The explication here seems to dramatic for what is supporting it

it still feels metric though heavily substituted.  If the poem as a whole had a predominant meter it would be easier to pinpoint here.  The first line is perfect amphibrachic (there once was a man from nantucket) while the other 2 are roughly iambic with spondee subs. It is possible the first line would be a continuation of anapestic with a catalexis (x da dum da da dum da da dum)

Underneath the pagoda, teens smoke marijuana
and the skunky aroma wafts strong as their coughs
across the trail where the wind picks up over the stream.

Once again we have your meter games, anapestic, anapestic, iambic/anapestic
It's hard to believe but I actually wrote this exact same meter into a poem once

Once again, good attention to sound throughout here.  Linebreaks are nice.

It is around here that the investment in scene-setting becomes obvious. Is this a poem or a poetic vignette?

The imagery is strong and well painted through here, no issues with ambiguity like the children launching their screams.

Deer in the low grass stare, heads turned,
white tails bare, until I’ve stepped too near
and they zip away quicker than sparks disappear.

So throughout reads I kind of vacillated between a moment trapped in time (embracing the liminality) and just a well written vignette about the time between dusk and dark at a local park.

The read is enjoyable but at the end I do feel a bit empty.  It feels a little like an experienced writer flexing his poetic muscle but I am still waiting for the volta.

Overall, it is nice but - and this is unjustified criticism - I feel like it could/should be so much more.  liminality being a park post dusk - maybe a metaphor for the state between wake/sleep  (it has a nice dreamlike feel) or something else, I am not sure, just that the concept has so much potential and I am not sure it is fully realized here.

Still, thanks for the read, I enjoyed

[Roggen]

The ball court’s rusted hoops, stooped 
under the weight of dusk, 

The rusted hoops give me a vivid feeling of my youth. I love it.

I interpret it as a metaphor for... I'm not totally sure—decay, maybe? I think it works because of the use of "stooped."
I didn’t know this word before, but I think it fits its meaning quite well.
The weight of dusk—I'm not sure about that. It feels a little cliché, though not in a bad way.
I like clichés, and I use them quite often, but I can’t quite picture the “weight” you describe in that metaphor. I think you should describe it more subtly

watch the moon-
cloud shadows swoop across concrete.

Nearby, in the dark, children launch 
screams from park swings and flail, awkward
as mid-flight moth wings, before pinpoint landings.
i interpreI'm not really sure about that; I like the imagery but can't pick up the feeling you describe after the marijuana.
Nice, its grips me and gives me the creeps at the same time. 


Underneath the pagoda, teens smoke marijuana
and the skunky aroma wafts strong as their coughs
across the trail where the wind picks up over the stream.

I'm not really sure about that; I like the imagery but can't pick up the feeling you describe after the marijuana. I got the smell in my metaphorical nose but not the setting. Maybe it's because "steam" and trail" sound quiet vague.

Deer in the low grass stare, heads turned,
white tails bare, until I’ve stepped too near
and they zip away quicker than sparks disappear.