[split] discussion on publishing and posting from "Trusting the Science" thread

[Majestic Sun]

Very interesting explanation but can this poem be published?

[Tiger the Lion]

Thanks for reading and commenting guys. I suppose I might have posted this in "fun" as it is not really a polished piece. This was not meant as an indictment of science, but an indictment of the mindset that picks and chooses which science is convenient. Here in Canada, "trust the science" has become a sort of mantra that most of us believe in to a high degree. Our problem here is that our leaders are playing fast and loose with the science to cover their own failures. The alchemy is that the solid science is degraded by agendas. Millions of Canadians have received the first shot of the AZ vaccine and 4 months later will be getting Pfizer for a second shot. We went from trusting the science to trusting the politicians. This short poem was born out of those frustrations.

Very interesting explanation but can this poem be published?

Was more an explanation of the prompt than the poem. I'm not sure the question of publishing is at all relevant.

[Majestic Sun]

Thanks for reading and commenting guys. I suppose I might have posted this in "fun" as it is not really a polished piece. This was not meant as an indictment of science, but an indictment of the mindset that picks and chooses which science is convenient. Here in Canada, "trust the science" has become a sort of mantra that most of us believe in to a high degree. Our problem here is that our leaders are playing fast and loose with the science to cover their own failures. The alchemy is that the solid science is degraded by agendas. Millions of Canadians have received the first shot of the AZ vaccine and 4 months later will be getting Pfizer for a second shot. We went from trusting the science to trusting the politicians. This short poem was born out of those frustrations.

Very interesting explanation but can this poem be published?

Was more an explanation of the prompt than the poem. I'm not sure the question of publishing is at all relevant.

What makes you think that?

[Tiger the Lion]

Very interesting explanation but can this poem be published?

Was more an explanation of the prompt than the poem. I'm not sure the question of publishing is at all relevant.

What makes you think that?

Science.

[Majestic Sun]

Was more an explanation of the prompt than the poem. I'm not sure the question of publishing is at all relevant.

What makes you think that?

Science.

Good answer.

[TranquillityBase]

Majestic,

When you post something, you are publishing it.  Just because it's a forum, not an online (or print) poetry magazine, doesn't diminish the fact that people are reading your poems.  Not only that, you get comments (sometimes) and help (often).

Publishing is overrated*  We all want people to love our poems, but that actually is more likely in Pig Pen than if you get something in a poetry journal.  I've been there.  The feeling of accomplishment is short-lived and hollow.

One thing to keep in mind:  most journals will not consider poems previously published online.  At least they say that in their submission guidleline.  So they see us as published.
Here endeth the lesson.

TrqB

*I have great respect for those who make through the hoops through perseverance and determination and get their work published in a refereed journal or someone who publishes it themselves.  So this is of course just my feelings about the publishing question.

[Majestic Sun]

Majestic,

When you post something, you are publishing it.  Just because it's a forum, not an online (or print) poetry magazine, doesn't diminish the fact that people are reading your poems.  Not only that, you get comments (sometimes) and help (often).

Publishing is overrated*  We all want people to love our poems, but that actually is more likely in Pig Pen than if you get something in a poetry journal.  I've been there.  The feeling of accomplishment is short-lived and hollow.

One thing to keep in mind:  most journals will not consider poems previously published online.  At least they say that in their submission guidleline.  So they see us as published.
Here endeth the lesson.

TrqB

*I have great respect for those who make through the hoops through perseverance and determination and get their work published in a refereed journal or someone who publishes it themselves.  So this is of course just my feelings about the publishing question.

So basically you are saying that if I post my work here, it is seen as published? Even in the basic critique or mild or whatever on the forums?

[Quixilated]

This is a very good discussion about publishing and posting.  However, as the comments are not about the poem directly, I have moved them into the discussion forum.

Addressing the issue of posting and publishing: the Members Only forum is not visible to search engines.  If you want to workshop or post a poem, but you are worried about publishers disqualifying it, you can work on it there and the publishers will not find it when they do a search to see if it has already been published. 

http://www.pigpenpoetry.com/forum-70.html

[TranquillityBase]

So basically you are saying that if I post my work here, it is seen as published? Even in the basic critique or mild or whatever on the forums?

This is going to sound weaselly, but I guess it depends on how you define "published".  To me, publication means having readers.  I had a Wordpress site where I "published" my writings previously.  2-3 hits max on average.  At Pig Pen, there's no limit really to how many readers you might get on a poem.  Maybe not thousands, but it feels a heckuva a lot better than 3, 2 of whom are your person friends 

Going from the forum to a refereed journal is for someone else to illuminate us on; I have not tried it since I joined.  The month before I joined I tried Crazy Horse because I thought my first poems were masterpieces.  So when I got the rejection a few days ago, it didn't hurt a bit because I already knew they weren't good enough, mainly because of Pig Pen.

[busker]

In 2007, according to Wikipedia, the Poetry Magazine had a circulation of 30,000
The Poetry Review UK has this to say:
“ With 144 pages of new poems, original essays and wide-ranging reviews and comment, The Poetry Review is indispensable reading for approximately 15,000 readers worldwide”
The Poetry Society’s website ranks 84,000 in Alexa while allpoetry.com ranks 59,000

Rupi Kaur, on the other hand, has sold 2.5 million copies of her book(s)

So, what are we trying to achieve by publishing in a journal? Validation? If so, then it ought to be only the best journals that matter, otherwise there’s no meaningful validation.
If the objective is to reach out to a wider readership, Instagram is probably the way to go
Otherwise, sharing your poems with a small group of like minded strangers like we do here on the Pen, is about as good as it gets

[Majestic Sun]

So basically you are saying that if I post my work here, it is seen as published? Even in the basic critique or mild or whatever on the forums?

This is going to sound weaselly, but I guess it depends on how you define "published".  To me, publication means having readers.  I had a Wordpress site where I "published" my writings previously.  2-3 hits max on average.  At Pig Pen, there's no limit really to how many readers you might get on a poem.  Maybe not thousands, but it feels a heckuva a lot better than 3, 2 of whom are your person friends 

Going from the forum to a refereed journal is for someone else to illuminate us on; I have not tried it since I joined.  The month before I joined I tried Crazy Horse because I thought my first poems were masterpieces.  So when I got the rejection a few days ago, it didn't hurt a bit because I already knew they weren't good enough, mainly because of Pig Pen.

Did you keep trying? Or did you give up submitting poems?

[TranquillityBase]

Did you keep trying? Or did you give up submitting poems?

I have one poem out to the New Yorker 

But no, I'm not going to keep trying.  Someone's mama said "bloom where you are planted" and I've planted myself in the Pen for now.

[Majestic Sun]

Did you keep trying? Or did you give up submitting poems?

I have one poem out to the New Yorker 

But no, I'm not going to keep trying.  Someone's mama said "bloom where you are planted" and I've planted myself in the Pen for now.

What's it called? Can I get a link to it?

[busker]

Did you keep trying? Or did you give up submitting poems?

I have one poem out to the New Yorker 

But no, I'm not going to keep trying.  Someone's mama said "bloom where you are planted" and I've planted myself in the Pen for now.

What's it called? Can I get a link to it?

Why?

[Majestic Sun]

I have one poem out to the New Yorker 

But no, I'm not going to keep trying.  Someone's mama said "bloom where you are planted" and I've planted myself in the Pen for now.

What's it called? Can I get a link to it?

Why?

So I can see what the poem is about.

[TranquillityBase]

[quote="busker" pid='253035' dateline='1621039317']
[quote="Majestic Sun" pid='253033' dateline='1621030429']

What's it called? Can I get a link to it?

When it gets rejected I will be posting it in Pig Pen.

[busker]

What's it called? Can I get a link to it?

Why?

So I can see what the poem is about.

Is that important to you?

[Majestic Sun]

Why?

So I can see what the poem is about.

Is that important to you?

Pretty much yes.