09-14-2024, 04:33 AM
This is a good illustration of those two tricky words conservatives bandy with libertarians (and progs, but progs aren't discussion-worthy because words mean whatever they wish, and then they demand their interlocutors use them the same, abusively transformed way)...
Ahem. The two words are "freedom" and "liberty." Libertarians tend to confuse them; conservatives insist they're not the same at all, "liberty" rendered (often as "ordered liberty") almost the opposite of "freedom."
So. Inside the cell you're free, but not at liberty. Outside the cell, you're at liberty but not free. Is the difference visible vs. invisible constraints? Imposed vs. self-imposed ("self control") restraint? Constraints you make a convincing show of having internalized?
Someone famous said "That government is best that governs least," but he understood that "least" is not equal to "not at all." Absence of self-government is freedom; minimum self-government is liberty, which has to have far but definite walls to give it shape. And maximum self-government, not thinking or even seeing what's not to be tolerated, is neither (though it strongly resembles progressivism as applied and is what progs call "freedom").
All the best dualities have at least a third tine to their forks
Ahem. The two words are "freedom" and "liberty." Libertarians tend to confuse them; conservatives insist they're not the same at all, "liberty" rendered (often as "ordered liberty") almost the opposite of "freedom."
So. Inside the cell you're free, but not at liberty. Outside the cell, you're at liberty but not free. Is the difference visible vs. invisible constraints? Imposed vs. self-imposed ("self control") restraint? Constraints you make a convincing show of having internalized?
Someone famous said "That government is best that governs least," but he understood that "least" is not equal to "not at all." Absence of self-government is freedom; minimum self-government is liberty, which has to have far but definite walls to give it shape. And maximum self-government, not thinking or even seeing what's not to be tolerated, is neither (though it strongly resembles progressivism as applied and is what progs call "freedom").
All the best dualities have at least a third tine to their forks
Non-practicing atheist