Speak up!

[softlyfalling]

I am not permitted to delete, it seems

[Todd]

Hey Amy,

Totally appreciate this. Sadly, these types of look vs comment ratios are pretty common in workshops. They aren't quite as bad as they appear though. I probably look at most poems throughout the day five or so times before commenting. If other people are like me the ratio is at least better than we think. But your pay it forward comment is still valuable. These types of sites thrive when people give more than they take.

(PS I moved this to a discussion forum so it wouldn't get missed).

[Leanne]

A personal response -- as long as it's not a cut-and-paste job like you'll find on many other forums -- is often just as worthwhile as an in-depth critique, because we write for people. We really appreciate that kind of comment. Having said that, my reasoning is the same as Todd's -- I (almost) never comment the first time I read a poem, and sometimes not even the 21st time. It depends on how long it takes me to digest something properly Especially in Serious Critique, it's important to me that I'm not being swayed just by an emotional response to something.

People who take more than they give are exhausting for us -- but when we get members who understand what it's all about, it makes us crazy happy

[softlyfalling]

Thank you, Todd and Leanne...I had no idea where to post it, but I had a burning need to say something.
I have noticed, and forgive me if I am misguided, that the poems going unnoticed are perhaps somewhat more challenging in terms of syntax, vocabulary and theme....and also less adherent to the prosaic conversational tone of what I am assuming are efforts at modernism, influenced by spoken word.
If that has any relevance, it makes me sad and worried that I have just no place in the poetry arena of this society and this century. Many of the things I have been reproached for in the comments I receive are actually just the way I think, and speak....not any forced attempt to emulate poetry from another era.
I have absorbed what you said about reading a poem several times before commenting and I will let it sink in and soothe my discomfort. But, part of me is sticking out my stubborn chin and saying, "MOST of the readers here are undoubtedly reading the poems a single time." I hope my inner brat is wrong.

[Todd]

I saw one of your comments Amy on capitalizing the first word of a line, and I'm with you. To me that is purely a writer's choice and has no impact for me on the value or read of a poem. There are other opinions on that, but isn't that true of everything.

I wouldn't worry too much about it Amy. You have a smooth style. You can only go with who you are and how you write and build from that.

As far as the poems that go unnoticed. Yeah, it can be for a lot of reasons. For me, a lack of comment usually is a sign that I'm not sure what to suggest. I suspect that's a lot of people.

Not making excuses for it, just probably a lot of factors. I think your encouragement to speak up though is a good one.

[Leanne]

Amy, don't sweat it -- I'm always being told that I my language is too difficult, though not on this site anymore because I shot those people and buried them in Todd's sock drawer.

Personally, I love to be challenged by a poem. Those are the pieces that I will read the most often, but they're also the ones that take the longest to do justice to with a comment. I don't mind a prosaic tone if it's done well and I enjoy a good example of any style of poem -- but what I like the most is someone who has their own style, their own voice, and they retain that while listening to criticisms and confidently deciding what is and isn't going to enhance their poem. Every reader brings something different to a poem and it's a difficult balancing act to work out what to listen to and what is going to cause your poem to lose its focus and personality.

Unfortunately, most of the members on any poetry site are just passing through in the hope of praise and adoration. The ones that stick around, though -- they're to be cherished.

[rowens]

I think a lot of people assume things based on things they know that others may or may not know about different styles, movements or fashionable periods in poetic thinking and working. I think genre writing, or at least thinking in genre writing, is kind of silly. If people tell you your poems are out of style, or seem to be implying that, that only means it's out of their style. Some people don't know what "modern" or "classical" or any of that means. And their ignorance of these canonical notions might be what some people's poetry strives on; and that's fine if that gets them working. But it really doesn't have anything to do with whether a person can write poetry. A person that's never read anything but Lord Byron can still write something different from Byron that's good, or something that's like Byron and good. But the more sophisticated you get, the more complicated you seem. And the more sophisticated and complicated you seem, the more people expect from you, and the more they push you.

I guess.

People have lots of reasons. Sometimes.

[Leanne]

Also -- and this could just be me being grumpy, but I don't mind what people think of me anymore -- many of the people who have no replies on their poems have posted straight into a critique forum without commenting anywhere else before or since. We have only recently brought in a rule that prior to posting in Mild or Serious, you need to have commented (in a meaningful way, not copy-paste) on someone else's poem -- we had to make it a rule to combat this exact problem. Due to the time investment required in a critique forum, I don't think it's really fair to expect people to comment on a poem if you're not going to do the same yourself. Similarly, I just flat out refuse to comment if someone has posted in a critique forum and refused to accept criticism with comments like "I have no intention of editing", which completely defeats the purpose of a workshop. There are some people who only post in Miscellaneous or Fun where there's no real expectation of editing, and that's perfectly fine, usually because those people also participate in other threads.

I guess the upshot is, if people haven't commented on a poem it's often because the poster hasn't commented anywhere else either. They're the people you should be annoyed with!

[rayheinrich]

...and also less adherent to the prosaic conversational tone of what I am assuming are efforts at modernism, influenced by spoken word"

Ah yes! I crave that bygone day
When words were formed by writ;
Those golden days where none fell sway
To horrid chat and chit.

[rowens]

I don't care what people think about me either. But I'm curious about what people think about the people that think about me.

[Leanne]

...and also less adherent to the prosaic conversational tone of what I am assuming are efforts at modernism, influenced by spoken word"

Ah yes! I crave that bygone day
When words were formed by writ;
Those golden days where none fell sway
To horrid chat and chit.

First thought I had, on reading this,
was: that Ray H doth take the piss!

[rayheinrich]

...and also less adherent to the prosaic conversational tone of what I am assuming are efforts at modernism, influenced by spoken word"

Ah yes! I crave that bygone day
When words were formed by writ;
Those golden days where none fell sway
To horrid chat and chit.

First thought I had, on reading this,
was: that Ray H doth take the piss!

To post, perchance to piss; aye, there's the rub.