Destruction and Creativeness

[heslopian]

Shaving blades, colder than the distant moon,
grey as an old woman's hair, do not dance like daffodils.
The hollows of the subconscious

where sounds and language sit like books
hold no student's photographs
featuring extended arms,

a poorly written false wisdom
doodled in the white margin.
Maybe I'm a philistine.

Could the Holocaust have been
one giant performance piece? Don't demonise
poor Mengele. He was a struggling artist.

The Botticelli of scalpels,
Dante of the primed handgun,
the surgery, the broken skull.

Depression isn't beautiful,
regardless what the traveller may use of it to feed his art
on returning to this world.

[Aish]

Shaving blades, colder than the distant moon,
grey as an old woman's hair, do not dance like daffodils. What an opener, Jack!
The hollows of the subconscious

where sounds and language sit like books
hold no student's photographs
featuring extended arms,

a poorly written false wisdom
doodled in the white margin.
Maybe I'm a philistine. This is an interesting lead in to the discussion below.

Could the Holocaust have been
one giant performance piece? Don't demonise I am not keen on 'Don't demonise poor Mengele'. I think 'Perhaps Mengele was a struggling artist' fits better without illiciting sympathy or glorifying him, and it fits with the remainder. Is 'demonise' a British spelling?
poor Mengele. He was a struggling artist.

The Botticelli of scalpels,
Dante of the primed handgun,
the surgery, the broken skull.

Depression isn't beautiful,
regardless what the traveler may use of it to feed his art I love this strophe. It is truth, and skillfully written. While I covet my mania, depression is not artistic, or to be lauded over. it kills.
on returning to this world.

It's a good poem, Jack. I think 'Creativity' would work better in the title, and 'Maybe I'm a Philistine' through 'broken skull' seems like it was inserted in the middle, but it does work.

[billy]

Shaving blades, colder than the distant moon,
grey as an old woman's hair, do not dance like daffodils.
The hollows of the subconscious

where sounds and language sit like books
hold no student's photographs
featuring extended arms,

a poorly written false wisdom (false feels redundant)
doodled in the white margin.
Maybe I'm a philistine.

Could the Holocaust have been
one giant performance piece? Don't demonise
poor Mengele. He was a struggling artist.

The Botticelli of scalpels,
Dante of the primed handgun,
the surgery, the broken skull.

Depression isn't beautiful,
regardless what the traveler may use of it to feed his art
on returning to this world.

shaving blades feels a little weird for me (i'm too used to razor blades.)
and traveller has 2 L's. it's a very dark piece specially the mengele reference, i actually like the way it's done but it does read like the 1st person admires him? (i see it as tongue in cheek rant) to compare him in artistic skill to bottom nelly feels a little shallow.
the last verse will vibe with lots of people and so it' works well.
jmo
thanks for the read jack

[heslopian]

"Don't demonise poor Mengele" was supposed to be sarcastic, as was the whole Holocaust tangent. In no way was I attempting to glorify or ellicit sympathy for him. I'd consider that immoral, especially in a poem which isn't about him, but where he's used to prove a point. Because I don't consider self-destruction art I referenced the destruction of other people to illustrate that point. If we don't consider mass murder an aesthetic principle, then neither should we think self-harm thus.
Thanks for your feedback Billy and Aish, and I'll have a serious think about how I can edit the offending lines if that's how they come across.
Thanks for the heads up on the spelling mistake as well Billy. I ran this through an American spell checker.

[Aish]

Art, performance art in particular, is all subjective. I certainly do not consider what he did artistic, and yet beauty amongst the broken is something we humans search for. Where is the why? Is God in the gallows?
I like the reference to Mengele as a performance artist - it is original. I have encountered those who would even insist it could be true. I just think slightly rewording it makes your point better and ensures your sarcasm is received as intended, but that's a personal observance and obviously you do not have to take my suggestion.

[heslopian]

I believe pain can be made beautiful through the expression of it in music, poetry etc. That, I like to think, is the crux of my aesthetic. It's why I love Anne Sexton's work. The stuff of her poems was abortion, abuse, suicide and preriods, yet the simple fact of those things I don't find beautiful. Mengele pinning a child's eyeball to a notice board (which he apparently once did) isn't beautiful, and it isn't art, regardless what anyone says, I believe. Art is indeed subjective, but what Mengele did isn't art, like cutting yourself isn't art. Art, as defined by Wikipedia (in an article I assume was written by those with some expertise) is "the product or process of deliberately arranging items (often with symbolic significance) in a way that influences and affects one or more of the senses, emotions, and intellect". Mengele's actions affect my emotions only in a negative sense, repulsing and disgusting me to no useful end. Anyone who reacts otherwise to atrocities such as the Holocaust and considers them art is in my opinion a maniac. The kind of person who'd kidnap and torture a child to death in his basement then call it art. The Bradys and Hindleys of the world.
I know I don't have to take your suggestion but I like it very much, Aish, and may implement it at some point so I can improve my work

[Aish]

About 8 years back there was a gallery opening showcasing what I am going to refer to as cadaver art. Various bodies were used. Some had pictures carved into the flesh, some had intestines and other organs 'artistically' arranged outside the body. I found it interesting, and while I can appreciate the aesthetic of pushing boundaries at the end of the day I feel this type of thing to be desecratory as well as needless sensationalism.

[Wildcard]

Shaving blades, colder than the distant moon,
grey as an old woman's hair, do not dance like daffodils. I love the way the poem opens. 'Shaving blades, cold . . . distant moon, all nice, but I honestly lost you at daffodil (or maybe even dance).
The hollows of the subconscious but when you switch gears, you do it with style. I love this line and the next (verse?)

where sounds and language sit like books
hold no student's photographs
featuring extended arms,

a poorly written false wisdom
doodled in the white margin.
Maybe I'm a philistine. I have a suggestion here: think about putting the writing in the margin in quotes. I think it would signify to the reader that it's another opinion.

Could the Holocaust have been
one giant performance piece? Don't demonise
poor Mengele. He was a struggling artist.

The Botticelli of scalpels,
Dante of the primed handgun, You don't even have to know what these people did to be affected strongy by this line. I should know . . . )
the surgery, the broken skull.

Depression isn't beautiful,
regardless what the traveler may use of it to feed his art
on returning to this world.

IMO the ending is beyond reproach. It feels like a truistic old-world philosophy that demands by its very nature to be believed in. Very nicely done, sir.

[Aish]

I am a little confused by your reply, Ava. Are you meaning you don't have to know what Mengele and his SS did, or how Dante (a writer) and Botticelli (a painter) fit in?

[heslopian]

About 8 years back there was a gallery opening showcasing what I am going to refer to as cadaver art. Various bodies were used. Some had pictures carved into the flesh, some had intestines and other organs 'artistically' arranged outside the body. I found it interesting, and while I can appreciate the aesthetic of pushing boundaries at the end of the day I feel this type of thing to be desecratory as well as needless sensationalism.

If those cadavers, while alive, had signed over their bodies to be used specifically for such purposes then I have no problem with it and can see how it might be called art. But when you harm someone against their will the only emotions which can be evoked for a sane person I think are sadness and disgust. With cadavers it's a wee bit more complex. I'd still argue that it isn't moral to desecrate somebody's corpse, by which I mean to use it without their consent, but it isn't the same as torturing a live person. You're playing with an empty shell, like you might paints or marble, and so I wonder if it is reasonable for some to consider that showcase you mention art.

---

Thanks for the kind words and feedback AA The daffodils line refers to this poem by William Wordsworth: http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/daffodils/ Specifically the ending.
I really like your idea about putting what was on the photograph I mention in quotes. Something like "pity me becaus i bleed"[sic] would work well.

[Wildcard]

I really like that line. That might make the distinction needed. My praise isn't hollow, sir. It is due.