The PigPen's Resplendent Kaffeeklatsch

[wasellajam]

I had a dream last night:

My neighbor (the one who doesn't like my chickens {Who isn't even technically a neighbor as she is across the street and up the road one house}) had her whole front yard flattened by a tractor and a huge garden put in and surrounded the whole thing with 8 foot tall black chain link fence.  I went over to see what was going on and - sure enough - my chickens were over the fence somehow and wreaking chaos upon her garden

How did that make you feel, in the dream?

A bit panicky.  The only way to retrieve my errant flock would be to confront my rather unpleasant neighbor and discuss why my chickens were in her garden as well as discuss the damage they had caused.

Maybe you should figure a way to keep them away from there, or at least figure out a way for the neighbor to shoot them, good fences and all that.

I once had neighbors who welcomed my cat on their morning walk but when he would try digging in the gravel by their door they would pull out the hose. He never came home sopping wet but everyone was happy.

[milo]

How did that make you feel, in the dream?

A bit panicky.  The only way to retrieve my errant flock would be to confront my rather unpleasant neighbor and discuss why my chickens were in her garden as well as discuss the damage they had caused.

Maybe you should figure a way to keep them away from there, or at least figure out a way for the neighbor to shoot them, good fences and all that.

You're right about that, I just haven't figured it out yet

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I am going through some of the practice threads and it is amazing how many of them Mercedes went off and got published. Incredible!

[wasellajam]

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A bit panicky.  The only way to retrieve my errant flock would be to confront my rather unpleasant neighbor and discuss why my chickens were in her garden as well as discuss the damage they had caused.

Maybe you should figure a way to keep them away from there, or at least figure out a way for the neighbor to shoot them, good fences and all that.

You're right about that, I just haven't figured it out yet

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I am going through some of the practice threads and it is amazing how many of them Mercedes went off and got published.  Incredible!

oops, I meant to write Shoo the chickens, not shoot them lol though I am worried about them getting shot.

I know, constantly have my mouth dropping open at mercedes’ writing, NaPM also. What gifts she gave us.

[milo]

I remember a game we used to play where people would pm me for a heroic couplet and then they would turn it into a villanelle, I wonder if there would be any interest in that

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Also, please no talk of shooting my chickens

[wasellajam]

mmm, coffee. Good morning 

[milo]

Good morning, Ella!

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I was talking with my daughter about the site yesterday and she had some thoughts about our feedback policy

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It is bound to be controversial but I think she may be right

[wasellajam]

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Good morning, Ella!

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I was talking with my daughter about the site yesterday and she had some thoughts about our feedback policy

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It is bound to be controversial but I think she may be right

I hope she’s included some incentive to convince people to learn to critique. For me that’s more nerve racking than revealing my own work, but such a worthwhile and necessary skill if someone is trying to improve.

[milo]

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Good morning, Ella!

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I was talking with my daughter about the site yesterday and she had some thoughts about our feedback policy

---

It is bound to be controversial but I think she may be right

I hope she’s included some incentive to convince people to learn to critique. For me that’s more nerve racking than revealing my own work, but such a worthwhile and necessary skill if someone is trying to improve.

she doesn't have any money if that is what you are suggesting

[milo]

So, First let me share her observations. She is Gen Z and as you probably know, they all struggle with anxiety already. She thinks it would be very intimidating to show up at a new site and immediately try to critique other people's writing when you are not sure what you are doing and you are brand new.

Now we know, most people who come here have a poem they want feedback on. They are excited, we get that. What if we allowed them to post the poem first and then owe us the feedback after they have looked around a bit?

I know when I joined the site we were getting 20 new poems a day posted and it was a bit much for us to keep up with them all but now, I feel like we could afford to give a little leeway to get new people into poetry and into the site.

After a while, we know people who hang around for a while love it and become valuable members and the rest just sod off anyway, nothing lost

[Tiger the Lion]

So, First let me share her observations.  She is Gen Z and as you probably know, they all struggle with anxiety already.  She thinks it would be very intimidating to show up at a new site and immediately try to critique other people's writing when you are not sure what you are doing and you are brand new.

Now we know, most people who come here have a poem they want feedback on.  They are excited, we get that.  What if we allowed them to post the poem first and then owe us the feedback after they have looked around a bit?

I know when I joined the site we were getting 20 new poems a day posted and it was a bit much for us to keep up with them all but now, I feel like we could afford to give a little leeway to get new people into poetry and into the site.

After a while, we know people who hang around for a while love it and become valuable members and the rest just sod off anyway, nothing lost

I would be open to an approach like this. On a practical level the worst case scenario is an exercise in critique even if the OP buggers off into the ether. If the exception were limited to "Basic" it might work. I think long time members would instinctively know not to invest too much where a tit for tat has not yet happened. It does however make modding a little more subjective and therefore prone to mood swings like when one's CAKE is so late.

[busker]

I agree. There should be no immediate need to crit first. It acts as a barrier. It was okay back in the day when the web was the new thing, but now Instagram is the new thing - okay, not that new, only 15 years maybe - and no one wants to be the Face of the Pig, even the good looking ones like Todd and CRNDLSM. Quixillated threatened to leave if we splashed her photos on our Insta page.

Actually, maybe you can be the Pig Ambassador, Milo, or should I say Lord Bacon?

[milo]

I would be willing to do whatever to help the site but I have no idea what that actually is, I don’t even have instagram

[busker]

I would be willing to do whatever to help the site but I have no idea what that actually is, I don’t even have instagram

We need somebody good looking and young, geologically speaking, to promote poetry on social media. You could do it, using your pictures from 1985, or if you were ugly then, using AI.
I’m being flippant, but the main thing is an active social media presence.

If we want new members, that is. Many of them. A new cohort to keep the Pen going.

But it’s a lot of hard work, and you’ll have to keep at it. It’s too hard for someone to take it up as a labour of love most of the time.

[milo]

I am actually surprisingly ok looking and probably not even too old but I have zero social media followers or skills- what about TikTok, I am endlessly scrolling, wouldn’t mind seeing a poetry reading occasionally

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Just remembered we had a twitter for a while and we all donated poems and it would randomly tweet one out daily

[wasellajam]

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I am actually surprisingly ok looking and probably not even too old but I have zero social media followers or skills- what about TikTok, I am endlessly scrolling, wouldn’t mind seeing a poetry reading occasionally

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Just remembered we had a twitter for a while and we all donated poems and it would randomly tweet one out daily

Was that twitter or tumblr? 

[milo]

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I am actually surprisingly ok looking and probably not even too old but I have zero social media followers or skills- what about TikTok, I am endlessly scrolling, wouldn’t mind seeing a poetry reading occasionally

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Just remembered we had a twitter for a while and we all donated poems and it would randomly tweet one out daily

Was that twitter or tumblr? 

you were here for it, probably donated some poems.

I don't remember to be honest

[Quixilated]

To be completely honest, we are already extremely casual about the feedback requirement. We don't actually require feedback "before" a poem is posted. We say we do, but it's not like we ban anyone or delete poems the way we once did. We leave a note if they haven't left feedback after a few days (which I don't think is unreasonable). Usually people who have many poems to share do end up leaving feedback. The ones who only had one poem to post never come back to leave feedback, but they also weren't going to post more poems anyway. The rules are already so incredibly relaxed (especially compared to how they used to be) simply out of lack of manpower and also a bit of laziness that there are already almost no rules. We already don't pester anyone about feedback if they are posting outside the workshops. Anyone can come and post poems in the other forums and we would only mention feedback if they are posting endless poems and zero comments. I don't mind being even more relaxed about feedback in the basic forum (by that I mean not leaving a feedback-note on their first poem in that forum). We can re-word the rules on that forum if you want, but, I'm not sure any newbie really reads them before posting anyway. As long as all the other mods agree, I don't mind giving newbies in the basic forum one free pass.

[milo]

What say you little piggies?

[wasellajam]

Everything ends up on the mods' plates and we all know, and are constantly reminded, that there is no room for even a petit four right now. We also know they are devoted to the site so whatever they think is best I have full confidence in. Change is life.

[Tiger the Lion]

Quix does most of the heavy lifting here so I'm happy to defer to her. She is accurate in saying almost nobody has been banned for posting without critiquing first. (unless that is coupled with Mod abuse or ignoring warnings) There really isn't a significant change to be made. If anything I might suggest rather than a scary. red lettered warning, we may be able to write a (standard greeting/thanks for posting/why crit is important/look forward to more) type response in a less ominous colour. 

Hello Milo and welcome to the Pigpen. Thanks for sharing your poem with us and we look forward to more from you. In the meantime please try your hand at providing feedback to others. It is a vital part of learning and integral to how the site functions. See you in the threads. 

Mod/Admin


Of course the poorly written sample above would be improved upon. We may already have something similar that Quix wrote in the INTROS thread.