ACLU Seeks Accounting for Targeted Drone Killings

[billy]

altezon said;

The Brookings Institute estimated a year ago that UAV attacks in Pakistan kill ten times as many
civilians as al Qaeda and Taliban targets. The attacks have quadrupled since Obama became president,
and now our government no longer releases official death counts.

My take on these statistics is that US planners are determined to exterminate anyone capable
of mounting World-Trade-Center-scale attacks, and they're willing to inflict collateral damage
on noncombatants for a high-value target. It isn't a 'terrorist' mentality, because they don't
deliberately target civilians or expect the high civilian death toll to dishearten the enemy.

then goes on to ask others for source material, what is the fucking point when you already gave it

but just to satisfy you before i stop replying to any more of your posts, knock yerself out with this one, source;


perhaps this isn't a whole Pakistani village, perhaps only terrorists died here. perhaps?

[altezon]

The Brookings Institute estimated a year ago that UAV attacks in Pakistan kill ten times as many civilians as al Qaeda and Taliban targets.

altezon goes on to ask others for source material, what is the fucking point when you already gave it? but just to satisfy you before i stop replying to any more of your posts, knock yerself out with this one source

But your source at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drone_attacks_in_Pakistan
... doesn't support any of these claims:

i don't agree that they just be fired into civilian areas where innocent families live (or kids). *** drone dropping bombs on a house that has kids in the yard. or women washing clothes or anyone else other than a terrorist is wrong.

yes, the usa army have admitted it numerous times. weddings schools to many to mention, i never saw it but both sides say it's so, so i'll believe them. i've also seen pics of dead kids and adults in the open. so i'll say yes it does happen.

... and it includes a report that UAV's have killed no civilians at all.

"According to Farhat Taj a member of AIRRA the drones have never killed any civilians."
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp...2010_pg3_5

Next time read what you cite instead of using the "spray and pray" method.

[billy]

altezon; But your source at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drone_attacks_in_Pakistan
... doesn't support any of these claims:

i don't agree that they just be fired into civilian areas where innocent families live (or kids). *** drone dropping bombs on a house that has kids in the yard. or women washing clothes or anyone else other than a terrorist is wrong.

that's an opinion. and if a village isn't a civilian area where civilians live work and play, what is ?

yes, the usa army have admitted it numerous times. weddings schools to many to mention, i never saw it but both sides say it's so, so i'll believe them. i've also seen pics of dead kids and adults in the open. so i'll say yes it does happen.

i put a source below.

altezon said; and it includes a report that UAV's have killed no civilians at all.

"According to Farhat Taj a member of AIRRA the drones have never killed any civilians."
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp...2010_pg3_5

yes and she also believes pigs fly.

Next time read what you cite instead of using the "spray and pray" method.

you mean like this;

A study called 'The Year of the Drone" published in February 2010 by New America Foundation found that in a total of 114 drone strikes in Pakistan between 2004 and early 2010 approximately between 834 and 1,216 individuals had been killed, about two thirds of whom were thought to be militants and one third were civilians.

and this;

On July 20, 2009, the Brookings Institution released a report stating that ten civilians died in the drone attacks for every militant killed.
and heres a source with an apology from the usa army via a general.
source;

Last week, Pakistani and American officials said the No. 2 Afghan Taliban leader, Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar, had been caught some ten days earlier in the southern Pakistani city of Karachi.

Two other Taliban leaders - Mullah Abdul Salam of Kunduz province and Mullah Mohammad in Baghlan province - were arrested separately in Pakistan about 10 to 12 days ago, according to the Kunduz governor, Mohammad Omar.

The reports gave few details of Kabir's arrest, except that it happened recently.

Meanwhile, the commander of U.S. and Nato forces in Afghanistan took his apology for a weekend airstrike that killed civilians directly to the Afghan people, with a video in which he pledged to work to regain their trust.

In the film, translated into the Afghan languages of Dari and Pashto on a Nato website, a stern General Stanley McChrystal says sorry for the strike in central Uruzgan province that Afghan officials say killed at least 21 people.

the only person spraying it in here is you i'm afraid.
if you wish to antagonise instead of discuss, if you wish to troll instead of debate. feel free. from now on others can respond to you, i have a choice not to and i'll be using it in every single post of yours from now on.

enjoy the forum.

[altezon]

if you wish to antagonise instead of discuss, if you wish to troll instead of debate. feel free.
from now on others can respond to you,
i have a choice not to and i'll be using it in every single post of yours from now on.

It's not my purpose to offend you, big guy.

Still nothing about
"drone dropping bombs on a house that has kids in the yard. or women washing clothes"
or "the usa army have admitted it numerous times. weddings schools to many to mention"
or "pics of dead kids".

"Spray and pray" means citing 2 meters of text without an excerpt of the part that allegedly supports your argument.
Finding such an excerpt would require your reading the text, which is what I had to do in order to determine there is no such support.
The moral? Don't write checks you can't cash.

[srijantje]

altezon,are you trying to say that drone strikes don't and never have killed civilians?or that it never has been proven?

[altezon]

altezon,are you trying to say that drone strikes don't and never have killed civilians?or that it never has been proven?

Of course not. I'm saying:

The Brookings Institute estimated a year ago that UAV attacks in Pakistan kill ten times as many
civilians as al Qaeda and Taliban targets. The attacks have quadrupled in frequency since Obama
became president, and now our government no longer releases official death counts.

My take on these statistics is that US planners are determined to exterminate anyone capable
of mounting World-Trade-Center-scale attacks, and they're willing to inflict collateral damage
on noncombatants for a high-value target. It isn't a 'terrorist' mentality, because they don't
deliberately target civilians or expect the high civilian death toll to dishearten the enemy.

A secret 'hit list' of individuals marked for death is probably unlawful without a genuine state of war.
I don't think the "war on terrorism" should be considered a real war any more than the "war on drugs".

http://pigpenpoetry.com/showthread.php?t...0#pid37200

[srijantje]

A secret 'hit list' of individuals marked for death is probably unlawful without a genuine state of war.
I don't think the "war on terrorism" should be considered a real war any more than the "war on drugs"

you're absolutely right on that one,it's a very convenient war,you can declare it on anybody you want for as long as you want.

i'm still wondering about where they get the info on when and who to target with their UAV's

[altezon]

i'm still wondering about where they get the info on when and who to target with their UAV's .

Some of the intelligence is probably coming from the Pakistani government,
who seems to be playing a double-game politically regarding
UAV attacks on the federally-administered tribal areas (FATA) in northwest Pakistan.
Pakistan's central government has never been able to police the area effectively.


FATA

Pakistan has repeatedly denounced the US predator drone attacks on its soil and has claimed
the strikes have caused hundreds of civilian lives and triggered anti-American sentiment.

But reports in The Times of London and The Wall Street Journal suggest that Pakistan has been
secretly cooperating in covert US operations by allowing the CIA to launch strikes from the
remote Shamsi airfield, 50km from the Afghanistan border.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/pak...1118893683

In February 2009, The Times (London) announced that it had obtained Google Earth images from
2006 which showed Predator aircraft parked outside a hangar at the end of the runway at Shamsi.


Satellite image of Shamsi puports to show
three Predator aircraft on a parking ramp.

The New York Times cited a senior Pakistani military official as saying
that in 2009 the drone operations were moved across the border to
Afghanistan. However, there's no reason to assume other forms of
cooperation have been discontinued.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamsi_airfield

[billy]

i'm still wondering about where they get the info on when and who to target with their UAV's

possibly from eavesdropping phone calls. people on the ground and satellite as well as numerous other places.

[srijantje]

i'm still wondering about where they get the info on when and who to target with their UAV's

possibly from eavesdropping phone calls. people on the ground and satellite as well as numerous other places.

that would be pretty dodgy to base airstrikes on,unless the people on the ground are actually u.s special services and not some locals who either want to make a fast buck or have a grudge against somebody

[billy]

they have listening stations where they get intel from phones using satellites after that they again use satellites to visually see who they are. then they send the drones in. they do the same with some high powered criminals in the west (without the drones of course) the stations use key words to flag anything they deem suspect.

[addy]

I would imagine they also rely on a network of informants, as well as tapping phone lines.

[billy]

i agree. which is why i'm hoping some of the leaks talked about in another thread don't lead to their death. i would think phone numbers and meeting places will be given by informants, probably even by the terrorists (false info) themselves in the hope of the usa bombing the wrong place makes them look bad.