One Theory about Alzheimer's

[71degrees]

There are certain moments
everyone comes to rely on;
those thoughts that come to us
when we have uprooted roots 
and our minds have moved
elsewhere

                                at times, 
despite stillness, old needs stir 
and the wish to grip the present 
recedes to claim half-buried bones;
hands try to grasp shards of light, 
our old toys, an empty street,
a narrow room

an open window, fresh baked bread,
sneakers, a porcelain duck, certain
Novembers, a backyard swing set

                        permanence 
is left to the foolish, our present, 
left, now our past, dry-mouthed,
sun-stroked; we want to hold onto 
anything that pleas

---

"at times" and "permanence" should be justified right. Even in EDIT mode, I can't seem to move them over.

[ChristopherSea]

There are certain moments
everyone comes to rely on;
those thoughts that come to us
when we have uprooted roots 
and our minds have moved
elsewhere

at times, 
despite stillness, old needs stir 
and the wish to grip the present 
recedes to claim half-buried bones;
hands try to grasp shards of light, 
our old toys, an empty street,
a narrow room

an open window, fresh baked bread,
sneakers, a porcelain duck, certain
Novembers, a backyard swing set

permanence 
is left to the foolish, our present, 
left, now our past, dry-mouthed,
sun-stroked; we want to hold onto 
anything that pleas

---

"at times" and "permanence" should be justified right. Even in EDIT mode, I can't seem to move them over.

Hello 71,
I am familiar with Alzheimer's as both a researcher and affected family member (my grandmother suffered from it). I like the optimistic outlook implied herein and the view of a new perceived reality. I am not certain if the structuring, stanza breaks and lack of certain capitolizations serve the poem for the reader. For me, it created a run on, but that could be a stream of consiousness effect. Nonethless, I did like the poem. I would suggest an edit something like this:


One Theory about Alzheimer's


There are certain moments
everyone comes to rely on;
those thoughts that come to us
when we have been uprooted
and our minds have moved
elsewhere.

At times, old needs stirring
as the wish to grip the present
recedes to claim half-buried bones.
Hands try to grasp shards of light,
our old toys, an empty street,
a narrow room, an open window,
fresh baked bread, sneakers,
a porcelain duck, certain Novembers,
a backyard swing set.

Permanence
is left to the foolish;
our present has left us. Our past
is dry-mouthed, sun-stroked.
We want to hold onto
anything that pleas.

The uprooted roots seemed a bit much, Some of the punctuation placement threw me as well. The stanza break seemed unwarranted, although it could represent the open window.

Consider my editing as how I read the poem and then see for yourself if any of it benefits your piece. This is a good one. Cheers/Chris

[71degrees]

Thanks. Everyone reads things differently (the beauty of poetry / art). You are familiar w/Alzheimer's. I lived w/Alzheimer's. There is nothing "optimistic" about it. Nothing. No reality for the afflicted. A life, yes. But only one of the past. Nothing in the present. Never to the future.

[ChristopherSea]

Thanks. Everyone reads things differently (the beauty of poetry / art). You are familiar w/Alzheimer's. I lived w/Alzheimer's. There is nothing "optimistic" about it. Nothing. No reality for the afflicted. A life, yes. But only one of the past. Nothing in the present. Never to the future.

Agreed! I should have qualified my statement. An AD patient with a preserved memory of the past in late stage disease is rare. Short term memory may fail first, but long term memory loss follows for the majority. The long term afflicted live only in a confused state of the present until death. My Aunt and Grandmother died with no sense of the past. There minds were empty of all experience, yet they could still do some things themselves, albeit robotically.

Those memory clips in your poem are all good ones. Therefore, I saw them as a spark in a realm of darkness. A second read gives me that same feeling of an AD patient at least having something to hang onto. I wish my loved ones had those recollections when they passed. Hence, my comment was in that vein. Please accept my deepest apologies, if my observation sounded like an insult to someone has had a suffering loved one.

[71degrees]

Thanks. Everyone reads things differently (the beauty of poetry / art). You are familiar w/Alzheimer's. I lived w/Alzheimer's. There is nothing "optimistic" about it. Nothing. No reality for the afflicted. A life, yes. But only one of the past. Nothing in the present. Never to the future.

Agreed! I should have qualified my statement. An AD patient with a preserved memory of the past in late stage disease is rare. Short term memory may fail first, but long term memory loss follows for the majority. The long term afflicted live only in a confused state of the present until death. My Aunt and Grandmother died with no sense of the past. There minds were empty of all experience, yet they could still do some things themselves, albeit robotically.

Those memory clips in your poem are all good ones. Therefore, I saw them as a spark in a realm of darkness. A second read gives me that same feeling of an AD patient at least having something to hang onto. I wish my loved ones had those recollections when they passed. Hence, my comment was in that vein. Please accept my deepest apologies, if my observation sounded like an insult to someone has had a suffering loved one.

No insult taken whatsoever. Don't get me wrong, I'm beginning to like this place (with small baby steps), but folks here tend to "read" poems how they want them, or worse, how they think they should be written, rather than trying to understand the subject from the writer's POV. No one knows for sure how a particular subject should be written except the writer. Criticism is always welcome about the particulars of a poem (an image, the tense, hell, even the dreaded lack of punctuation), but once in a while whole poems are rewritten here and I just can't figure out why?

Again, no insult taken about your Alzheimer's observations. My approach is always that art is "open" to interpretation. Always.

[billy]

here's how to indent, mybb doesn't allow it so we had to make a substitute for it.
text space and indent tag

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or this;
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        here
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---

No insult taken whatsoever. Don't get me wrong, I'm beginning to like this place (with small baby steps), but folks here tend to "read" poems how they want them, or worse, how they think they should be written, rather than trying to understand the subject from the writer's POV. No one knows for sure how a particular subject should be written except the writer. Criticism is always welcome about the particulars of a poem (an image, the tense, hell, even the dreaded lack of punctuation), but once in a while whole poems are rewritten here and I just can't figure out why?

Again, no insult taken about your Alzheimer's observations. My approach is always that art is "open" to interpretation. Always.

i see this as the reason for feedback, we take from it what will. often it's hard to see a poem from the poets POV. often the reader gets the wrong take on a poem as you say. sometimes whole poems are re written because the poet isn't sure or doesn't know how to take feedback...i've been guilty of that myself, often changing everything in the poem till it's a different animal. i do think the poets here reach a stage where they know what they want and know how to utilise the feedback given. like everything else knowing how to use feedback is as important as giving feedback or writing poetry, all slices of the same cake. you're capable of saying no this is right for me, many are not. you are capable of writing a decent poem, many are not. if you look at the decent poets on the site they all have one thing in common, then know when to refuse certain feedback and not use it. sometimes a poem really does need a rewrite. lets also remember that this is a workshop where sometimes the process of workshopping is more important than the poem,
arthur ashe as well as many other have said.

Success is a journey, not a destination.
The doing is often more important than the outcome. sorry about the discourse, back on topic;

Your poem

the last two stanza worked really well for me though pleas threw me a little. i think you capture some small aspect of the disease though the 1st stanza feels a bit wordy.

thanks for the read.

One Theory about Alzheimer's

There are certain moments
everyone comes to rely on;
those thoughts that come to us is those needed?
when we have uprooted roots
and our minds have moved
elsewhere while this stanza sets the poem up it does feel a little weak, that said i do like the last two lines and the subtle way a wandering mind is introduced.

                                at times,
despite stillness, old needs stir
and the wish to grip the present
recedes to claim half-buried bones; i like this line because it makes the reader think about what recede means for me it's getting lost (in the context of the poem) like tootles loosing his marbles, knowing he's lost them but not where.
hands try to grasp shards of light, for me shards of light doesn't quite work as well as it should. i understand the light is a memory but i think a better word choice is needed.
our old toys, an empty street,
a narrow room

an open window, fresh baked bread,
sneakers, a porcelain duck, certain
Novembers, a backyard swing set

                        permanence
is left to the foolish, our present,
left, now our past, dry-mouthed, there feels to be a conflict with the two lefts. a suggestion would be [for the foolish, our present, ]
sun-stroked; we want to hold onto
anything that pleas i keep wanting to read this last word as pleads.

[Humbert]

There are certain moments
everyone comes to rely on; I think a colon would make more sense here, as a colon qualifies/ defines while a semicolon connects two independent clauses
those thoughts that come to us those might not be needed
when we have uprooted roots 
and our minds have moved
elsewhere I enjoyed this line break and how it literally moved the thought "elsewhere" within the poem

                                at times, 
despite stillness, old needs stir 
and the wish to grip the present 
recedes to claim half-buried bones;
hands try to grasp shards of light, 
our old toys, an empty street,
a narrow room

an open window, fresh baked bread,
sneakers, a porcelain duck, certain
Novembers, a backyard swing set

                        permanence 
is left to the foolish, our present, 
left, now our past, dry-mouthed,
sun-stroked; we want to hold onto 
anything that pleas I love this line, and it makes sense in the context of the poem; the word "pleas" has a sort of underlying pun in that we hold onto anything that wants to be held on to, or begs us, and also that is could be seen as the unfinished phrase "pleases us" that can be attributed by the forgetful nature of Alzheimer's.

---

"at times" and "permanence" should be justified right. Even in EDIT mode, I can't seem to move them over.

Also to comment on the discourse, art is always up for interpretation, but I think that generally when people make suggestions it is to make the poem make sense within its own context. If you research the difference between formal and historical literary criticisms, you can see why things like "author's intention" are not acceptable for all readers. That being said, that does not necessarily make it unimportant either. Sorry for the tangent

All in all, I really enjoyed the poem. I think its structure really complemented the ideas associated with the disease, and the metaphors worked well for me: half-buried bones, shards of light. Thanks for the read and I look forward to any edits

[ChristopherSea]

There are certain moments
everyone comes to rely on; I think a colon would make more sense here, as a colon qualifies/ defines while a semicolon connects two independent clauses
those thoughts that come to us those might not be needed
when we have uprooted roots 
and our minds have moved
elsewhere I enjoyed this line break and how it literally moved the thought "elsewhere" within the poem

                                at times, 
despite stillness, old needs stir 
and the wish to grip the present 
recedes to claim half-buried bones;
hands try to grasp shards of light, 
our old toys, an empty street,
a narrow room

an open window, fresh baked bread,
sneakers, a porcelain duck, certain
Novembers, a backyard swing set

                        permanence 
is left to the foolish, our present, 
left, now our past, dry-mouthed,
sun-stroked; we want to hold onto 
anything that pleas I love this line, and it makes sense in the context of the poem; the word "pleas" has a sort of underlying pun in that we hold onto anything that wants to be held on to, or begs us, and also that is could be seen as the unfinished phrase "pleases us" that can be attributed by the forgetful nature of Alzheimer's.

---

"at times" and "permanence" should be justified right. Even in EDIT mode, I can't seem to move them over.

Also to comment on the discourse, art is always up for interpretation, but I think that generally when people make suggestions it is to make the poem make sense within its own context. If you research the difference between formal and historical literary criticisms, you can see why things like "author's intention" are not acceptable for all readers. That being said, that does not necessarily make it unimportant either. Sorry for the tangent

All in all, I really enjoyed the poem. I think its structure really complemented the ideas associated with the disease, and the metaphors worked well for me: half-buried bones, shards of light. Thanks for the read and I look forward to any edits

Individual interpretation is the wonderful thing about art. As both an artist and a poet, I welcome the audiences 'read'! I don’t always approach a piece with a purpose or direction. It can take on its own life or the imagination of the observer. If I can elicit unique reactions with a painting or poem, I am ecstatic.

[71degrees]

here's how to indent, mybb doesn't allow it so we had to make a substitute for it.
text space and indent tag

PHP Code:

here [=1] here [=2] here [=4] here [=8] here 


gives you this;
here   here     here         here                 here

or this;
  here
    here
        here
                here

---

Line spacing for the top of a post
how to use spaces

PHP Code:

[/] gives this. [/] [/] gives this. [/] [/] [/] gives this, [/] [/] [/] [/] and so on. 


gives this.


gives this.



gives this




gives this and so on.








and so on...

---

make sure you leave a space between each piece of bracketed code.

---

No insult taken whatsoever. Don't get me wrong, I'm beginning to like this place (with small baby steps), but folks here tend to "read" poems how they want them, or worse, how they think they should be written, rather than trying to understand the subject from the writer's POV. No one knows for sure how a particular subject should be written except the writer. Criticism is always welcome about the particulars of a poem (an image, the tense, hell, even the dreaded lack of punctuation), but once in a while whole poems are rewritten here and I just can't figure out why?

Again, no insult taken about your Alzheimer's observations. My approach is always that art is "open" to interpretation. Always.

i see this as the reason for feedback, we take from it what will. often it's hard to see a poem from the poets POV. often the reader gets the wrong take on a poem as you say. sometimes whole poems are re written because the poet isn't sure or doesn't know how to take feedback...i've been guilty of that myself, often changing everything in the poem till it's a different animal. i do think the poets here reach a stage where they know what they want and know how to utilise the feedback given. like everything else knowing how to use feedback is as important as giving feedback or writing poetry, all slices of the same cake. you're capable of saying no this is right for me, many are not. you are capable of writing a decent poem, many are not. if you look at the decent poets on the site they all have one thing in common, then know when to refuse certain feedback and not use it. sometimes a poem really does need a rewrite. lets also remember that this is a workshop where sometimes the process of workshopping is more important than the poem,
arthur ashe as well as many other have said.

Success is a journey, not a destination.
The doing is often more important than the outcome. sorry about the discourse, back on topic;

Your poem

the last two stanza worked really well for me though pleas threw me a little. i think you capture some small aspect of the disease though the 1st stanza feels a bit wordy.

thanks for the read.

One Theory about Alzheimer's

There are certain moments
everyone comes to rely on;
those thoughts that come to us is those needed?
when we have uprooted roots
and our minds have moved
elsewhere while this stanza sets the poem up it does feel a little weak, that said i do like the last two lines and the subtle way a wandering mind is introduced.

                                at times,
despite stillness, old needs stir
and the wish to grip the present
recedes to claim half-buried bones; i like this line because it makes the reader think about what recede means for me it's getting lost (in the context of the poem) like tootles loosing his marbles, knowing he's lost them but not where.
hands try to grasp shards of light, for me shards of light doesn't quite work as well as it should. i understand the light is a memory but i think a better word choice is needed.
our old toys, an empty street,
a narrow room

an open window, fresh baked bread,
sneakers, a porcelain duck, certain
Novembers, a backyard swing set

                        permanence
is left to the foolish, our present,
left, now our past, dry-mouthed, there feels to be a conflict with the two lefts. a suggestion would be [for the foolish, our present, ]
sun-stroked; we want to hold onto
anything that pleas i keep wanting to read this last word as pleads.

Thanks for the note about formatting. Drives me crazy when a poem doesn't sit on the screen the same way I put it there.

Also thanks for the detailed critique. I am often confused about what category a poem belongs in. Doesn't seem to be much difference between "Serious" and "Moderate" around here.

I do agree w/your notes about "left"…this needs work. Am fascinated by words w/two and three definitions. Am trying to work w/"left" as in an Alzheimer's person "left" his memories as easily as a normal person would have "left" a package behind. Therefore the two usages in the poem.

Again, thanks for the detailed examination. Appreciate it.

---

There are certain moments
everyone comes to rely on; I think a colon would make more sense here, as a colon qualifies/ defines while a semicolon connects two independent clauses
those thoughts that come to us those might not be needed
when we have uprooted roots 
and our minds have moved
elsewhere I enjoyed this line break and how it literally moved the thought "elsewhere" within the poem

                                at times, 
despite stillness, old needs stir 
and the wish to grip the present 
recedes to claim half-buried bones;
hands try to grasp shards of light, 
our old toys, an empty street,
a narrow room

an open window, fresh baked bread,
sneakers, a porcelain duck, certain
Novembers, a backyard swing set

                        permanence 
is left to the foolish, our present, 
left, now our past, dry-mouthed,
sun-stroked; we want to hold onto 
anything that pleas I love this line, and it makes sense in the context of the poem; the word "pleas" has a sort of underlying pun in that we hold onto anything that wants to be held on to, or begs us, and also that is could be seen as the unfinished phrase "pleases us" that can be attributed by the forgetful nature of Alzheimer's.

---

"at times" and "permanence" should be justified right. Even in EDIT mode, I can't seem to move them over.

Also to comment on the discourse, art is always up for interpretation, but I think that generally when people make suggestions it is to make the poem make sense within its own context. If you research the difference between formal and historical literary criticisms, you can see why things like "author's intention" are not acceptable for all readers. That being said, that does not necessarily make it unimportant either. Sorry for the tangent

All in all, I really enjoyed the poem. I think its structure really complemented the ideas associated with the disease, and the metaphors worked well for me: half-buried bones, shards of light. Thanks for the read and I look forward to any edits

Agree about the colon / semi-colon. A colon = "note what follows" (totally agree).

Really appreciate your other comments (especially "pleas"…I had "echoes" for the longest time there but it seemed cliche-ish. "pleas" it is. Your comments make me feel I'm in the right direction. It's been almost five years since my father passed. Just now getting a handle on things.

---

There are certain moments
everyone comes to rely on; I think a colon would make more sense here, as a colon qualifies/ defines while a semicolon connects two independent clauses
those thoughts that come to us those might not be needed
when we have uprooted roots 
and our minds have moved
elsewhere I enjoyed this line break and how it literally moved the thought "elsewhere" within the poem

                                at times, 
despite stillness, old needs stir 
and the wish to grip the present 
recedes to claim half-buried bones;
hands try to grasp shards of light, 
our old toys, an empty street,
a narrow room

an open window, fresh baked bread,
sneakers, a porcelain duck, certain
Novembers, a backyard swing set

                        permanence 
is left to the foolish, our present, 
left, now our past, dry-mouthed,
sun-stroked; we want to hold onto 
anything that pleas I love this line, and it makes sense in the context of the poem; the word "pleas" has a sort of underlying pun in that we hold onto anything that wants to be held on to, or begs us, and also that is could be seen as the unfinished phrase "pleases us" that can be attributed by the forgetful nature of Alzheimer's.

---

"at times" and "permanence" should be justified right. Even in EDIT mode, I can't seem to move them over.

Also to comment on the discourse, art is always up for interpretation, but I think that generally when people make suggestions it is to make the poem make sense within its own context. If you research the difference between formal and historical literary criticisms, you can see why things like "author's intention" are not acceptable for all readers. That being said, that does not necessarily make it unimportant either. Sorry for the tangent

All in all, I really enjoyed the poem. I think its structure really complemented the ideas associated with the disease, and the metaphors worked well for me: half-buried bones, shards of light. Thanks for the read and I look forward to any edits

Individual interpretation is the wonderful thing about art. As both an artist and a poet, I welcome the audiences 'read'! I don’t always approach a piece with a purpose or direction. It can take on its own life or the imagination of the observer. If I can elicit unique reactions with a painting or poem, I am ecstatic.

"Tangents" are what makes the world go around. Love them. Thank you.

[visualcondyle]

There are certain moments
everyone comes to rely on;
those thoughts that come to us
when we have uprooted roots 
and our minds have moved
elsewhere

                                at times, 
despite stillness, old needs stir 
and the wish to grip the present 
recedes to claim half-buried bones;
hands try to grasp shards of light, 
our old toys, an empty street,
a narrow room

an open window, fresh baked bread,
sneakers, a porcelain duck, certain
Novembers, a backyard swing set

                        permanence 
is left to the foolish, our present, 
left, now our past, dry-mouthed,
sun-stroked; we want to hold onto 
anything that pleas

---

"at times" and "permanence" should be justified right. Even in EDIT mode, I can't seem to move them over.

There are certain moments
that we come to rely on; see my comment about this
these thoughts that come to us
when we have become uprooted
and our minds have moved
elsewhere,

                                at times,
despite stillness, old needs stir
and the wish to grip the present
recedes to claim half-buried bones;
hands try to grasp shards of light,
our old toys, an empty street,
a narrow room- I like the dash here to push the reader down into the next line

an open window, fresh baked bread,
sneakers, a porcelain duck, certain
Novembers, a backyard swing set perhaps a colon here to create pause before the important mention of the word permanence?

                        permanence -- em-dash here would create foreshadowing of a reference to come
is left to the foolish, our present,
left, do you mean to have a comma here? now our past, dry-mouthed,
sun-stroked; we want to hold onto
anything that pleas I also read this as pleads

-------------------------------------
Hey there,

This is an absolutely lovely poem with an incredibly open, and at times, confessional
speaker. Towards the end of the poem, the speaker's voice seems to coast heavily
towards the list of items that are appropriate:

  "an open window, fresh baked bread,
  sneakers, a porcelain duck, certain
  Novembers, a backyard swing set"

During the list of these things, it seems almost natural to me as the reader to
want to "rush" through to your "permanence," placed in the next stanza (I definitely
like this). My comment above regarding the 1st stanza-- it might be more appropriate
to use the "we" instead of creating a universal, if, you are interested in your content connecting with the reader.
Occasionally, it can be an adverse feeling to be placed under a universal blanket when
it is quite possible, that the reader doesn't feel these things (yet).

The ending leaves me feeling thoughtful, and looking into the quiet that permeates because
the words " want to hold onto " don't really require any noise to experience first-hand.

I added in a few comments above, mostly relating to punctuation.
Thank you for posting!

-VisualCondyle (Tara)

[71degrees]

There are certain moments
everyone comes to rely on;
those thoughts that come to us
when we have uprooted roots 
and our minds have moved
elsewhere

                                at times, 
despite stillness, old needs stir 
and the wish to grip the present 
recedes to claim half-buried bones;
hands try to grasp shards of light, 
our old toys, an empty street,
a narrow room

an open window, fresh baked bread,
sneakers, a porcelain duck, certain
Novembers, a backyard swing set

                        permanence 
is left to the foolish, our present, 
left, now our past, dry-mouthed,
sun-stroked; we want to hold onto 
anything that pleas

---

"at times" and "permanence" should be justified right. Even in EDIT mode, I can't seem to move them over.

There are certain moments
that we come to rely on; see my comment about this
these thoughts that come to us
when we have become uprooted
and our minds have moved
elsewhere,

                                at times,
despite stillness, old needs stir
and the wish to grip the present
recedes to claim half-buried bones;
hands try to grasp shards of light,
our old toys, an empty street,
a narrow room- I like the dash here to push the reader down into the next line

an open window, fresh baked bread,
sneakers, a porcelain duck, certain
Novembers, a backyard swing set perhaps a colon here to create pause before the important mention of the word permanence?

                        permanence -- em-dash here would create foreshadowing of a reference to come
is left to the foolish, our present,
left, do you mean to have a comma here? now our past, dry-mouthed,
sun-stroked; we want to hold onto
anything that pleas I also read this as pleads

-------------------------------------
Hey there,

This is an absolutely lovely poem with an incredibly open, and at times, confessional
speaker. Towards the end of the poem, the speaker's voice seems to coast heavily
towards the list of items that are appropriate:

  "an open window, fresh baked bread,
  sneakers, a porcelain duck, certain
  Novembers, a backyard swing set"

During the list of these things, it seems almost natural to me as the reader to
want to "rush" through to your "permanence," placed in the next stanza (I definitely
like this). My comment above regarding the 1st stanza-- it might be more appropriate
to use the "we" instead of creating a universal, if, you are interested in your content connecting with the reader.
Occasionally, it can be an adverse feeling to be placed under a universal blanket when
it is quite possible, that the reader doesn't feel these things (yet).

The ending leaves me feeling thoughtful, and looking into the quiet that permeates because
the words " want to hold onto " don't really require any noise to experience first-hand.

I added in a few comments above, mostly relating to punctuation.
Thank you for posting!

-VisualCondyle (Tara)

Thank you for your punctuation commentary. I like to roll my poems without stops (periods) and therefore rely heavily on other marks. Your suggestions are well taken and I agree w/most of them. I am attempting to rewrite the ending ("pleas" needs to stay). I realize I took the word out of its regular part of speech context and that seems to be confusing folks. Alzheimer's people are incapable of "pleading." Somewhere in the dark recesses of my father's brain, I think he realized he was beyond sick. Before he crossed that line of never coming back, he was remembering the pleas of a normal life (or what he assumed was normal…but all he could remember were things from the past). He wasn't "pleading." All I know is that Alzheimer's is a bane. Trying to make sense of it is maddening.

Again, thanks for your time here. Appreciate very much.

[billy]

it's me again

Also thanks for the detailed critique. I am often confused about what category a poem belongs in. Doesn't seem to be much difference between "Serious" and "Moderate" around here.

sorry, i thought i was in serious

that aside, i know from reading your threads you're able to decide what you'll use and what you won't.
i think we had a thread about it a while ago.