Line length in poetry

[billy]

"gulp"

[btrudo]

If you really want to get into the science, you could look up how phonetics actually relates to the frequency. Things like the vowel sounds do have different corresponding frequencies, and some sounds have two frequencies which are emitted.

I also remember a long time looking at the sound wave pattern of speech; the actual physical breaks (no sound pressure) do not match the ends of syllables or words.

Then you can do comparative looks at different languages. For instance, English is predominately stress-timed, but that is not very common when looking at other languages.

[milo]

If you really want to get into the science, you could look up how phonetics actually relates to the frequency. Things like the vowel sounds do have different corresponding frequencies, and some sounds have two frequencies which are emitted.

I also remember a long time looking at the sound wave pattern of speech; the actual physical breaks (no sound pressure) do not match the ends of syllables or words.

Then you can do comparative looks at different languages. For instance, English is predominately stress-timed, but that is not very common when looking at other languages.

no, we are strictly discussing how LINE LENGTH effects reading speed.
In English poetry.

Jesus, this site is like a goddamn clinic for ADHD.

[billy]

remember we're not in the sewer or pig's arse please guys.

[C.M.C.]

Joke: I can only read as much in one line as my ADHD brain lets me look at the wall while typing because I forgot what I was saying about long lines.
Real Comment: Lines shouldn't be too long and lose the readers attention, but not too short so that you don't get the point across. It would differ between poems though.

[btrudo]

I was talking about the science of when we read aloud. We exhale air in order to produce sound and the physical sound pressure wave doesn't actually match the words or syllables. I would like to see someone read one of Shakespeare's sonnets so that I could actually see the sound wave and where breathes are actually taken. You can say that the line is a breath, but I would be curious if science could back any of it.

Just on another note, average resting respiratory rate for an adult is between 12 and 18 breathes a minute, so that means 3.3 to 5 seconds per breath. That's quite a variation; also when someone is excited, the rate goes up, meaning less time per breath. Actually billy's joke about "why about people with asthma?" does highlight this in a way. People will have very different physical experiences when reading a poem aloud. Reading mentally could also be quite different.

But of course, poets aren't noted for wanting to be scientific about the physical world.

[milo]

I was talking about the science of when we read aloud. We exhale air in order to produce sound and the physical sound pressure wave doesn't actually match the words or syllables. I would like to see someone read one of Shakespeare's sonnets so that I could actually see the sound wave and where breathes are actually taken. You can say that the line is a breath, but I would be curious if science could back any of it.

Just on another note, average resting respiratory rate for an adult is between 12 and 18 breathes a minute, so that means 3.3 to 5 seconds per breath. That's quite a variation; also when someone is excited, the rate goes up, meaning less time per breath. Actually billy's joke about "why about people with asthma?" does highlight this in a way. People will have very different physical experiences when reading a poem aloud. Reading mentally could also be quite different.

But of course, poets aren't noted for wanting to be scientific about the physical world.

And how does any of this tie back to the line length in English poetry and how it affects reading speed?

The last line about poets and science is, as usual, completely inaccurate and unsupportable but I suppose that really shouldn't be a surprise.

[btrudo]

True,

Though if you actually hear performances of Shakespeare's plays, the actors many times don't stop at the line breaks.


milo,

When people actually breathe and how often is related to line if you're trying to state the line is a breath. If you really want to back it with science, you really would have to have people read and look at the sound wave and when they actually breathe.

If you have scientific research (and not poets philosophizing about the line) that you have read or know about, please send me the information. A while back, this was an area that I was starting to read about.

[milo]

True,

Though if you actually hear performances of Shakespeare's plays, the actors many times don't stop at the line breaks.


milo,

When people actually breathe and how often is related to line if you're trying to state the line is a breath. If you really want to back it with science, you really would have to have people read and look at the sound wave and when they actually breathe.

If you have scientific research (and not poets philosophizing about the line) that you have read or know about, please send me the information. A while back, this was an area that I was starting to read about.

No one is trying to state a line is.a breath. At the risk of repeating what was already said at the beginning of the thread, I will just repeat it. General consensus is.that shorter lines speed up the reading of a poem and longer lines slow it down. It is an effect that occurs independently of other effects (meter, breathing, phonemes, etc.).

Also, there really aren't any poets here. There are people who for the most part have other professions (teachers, scientists, business leaders) who just happen to also have an interest in poetry.

[tectak]

The page blowing in the wind comes to mind as an example; this should be the longest line in the poem, stretching, "blowing" out to the margin. Long lines are fast and windy, and give the reader the Impression that the poet was swept away in a breeze of emotions, the vehicle of the muse, the oracle, if you will. A short line is slow and should a be compact poignancy that pacts a punch. Select your arsenal and arrange your weapons in accordance to their delivery.

(ahem) While not axiomatic, I believe the current general consensus is that short lines are faster and lighter while longer lines are slower and more somber.

I am with milo on this ,true.
Puzzlingy, perhaps, the line length is of greater relevance to "speed" per se-- I dislike "speed" and "fast" but am keeping in context--when long, than when short. There is little choice with short lines.
Axiomatic or not, it is not sensible to write an adagio with short, peppery, snappy phrasing. With long phrasing it is possible to achieve both. Same applies to poetry.
Short lines tempt snappy phrasing, enjambment and breathless meter.
Punch-packing is not a slow-motion device.
Best,
tectak

---

Terse verse, ha! I was thinking of tec's definition.

yah, we let him get away with that but it is not the actual definition. I am going to start referring to everything he writes as terse verse and see if he can prove me wrong.

Don't need to. As I coined the coupling I claim defining rights.
Suck on these, too
Mirth-verse. An open-ended description of a piece of writing that is so intentionally humerous it makes one smile, or so comedically bad it makes one laugh out loud. This category does not include poems that make one's eyes bleed.
Hearse-verse. Deathly prose taking a sombre subject, writing about it in a maudling fashion and invariably involving the death of some poor sod for the sake of poetic praise.
Dearth-verse. Largely self-explanatory. Just words. The largest category by far.
Curse-verse. That gutter-genre poetry which relies upon using fuck, shit, cunt and twat in any order to invoke any of the following categories of praise:
authentic
earthy
oh so true
relatable
convincing.
Worse-verse. Written by poets who over react to the pressure of crit when editing and gradually edit to extinction.
So there....
Best,
tectak.

[milo]

See, originally i was talking about the effects of shorter/longer lines on the overall reading of the poem. Obviously a shorter line is shorter! But if you break up say, a sentence into several short lines, it takes /longer/ to read it.

Poetry isn't about the actual time it takes, it is about the experience of the reader.