Violence; does it work?

[Universalchild]

Splurge away!

Australian beef is relatively inexpensive compared with prices in the UK. I've lived on cattle farms, dairy and beef -- because land is not such a rare commodity here, our farms are quite a bit bigger than British farms, for example. There are a few feed lots, which I thought were illegal here but turns out they're not, it's just that the meat is usually for the export market (they're foreign owned, of course, but I consider that no excuse for our allowing such practices on our soil). I continue to support lobby groups who are trying to have these legislated against -- fuck their wagyu beef, I'd rather a good free range Angus sirloin any day.

I'm also highly opposed to city people who buy meat from supermarkets in neat packaging and don't mind scoffing hot dogs, but then turn up their noses at haggis or black pudding or anything that is still in the shape that it was when it was inside the animal. I believe that if you're going to eat meat, you have an obligation to eat as much of the animal as you possibly can and you must be able to make the connection between meat on your plate and on the hoof. I handle my steak with (perhaps too much!) reverence and only buy it from a butcher who opposes unethical farming practices. Fortunately there are several of those in my local area. It's not too much more expensive, especially if you buy the cheaper cuts and learn how to cook with them (though last night, since the kids weren't home, we had some rather expensive Porterhouse steaks and they were bloody wonderful!).

I guess the point of all that is, meat eating is not directly related to violence or cruelty to animals, nor is it necessarily harmful to the environment. There are cattle stations here in Queensland that have cleared virtually no land -- many of them are larger than entire European countries

As a parent, trust me: if your kid is standing over a toaster with a knife in his hand, a stern word will not cut it. You smack the little bugger so that he remembers not to do it again. It's an aversion tactic and as such, if it's overused it's useless, but it's a valid parenting techique and it pisses me off no end to hear non-parents going on about how they'd never touch their child. Every child responds to different things and every parent uses different skills -- to make a sweeping statement that smacking kids is bad parenting, well, that's just a bit ignorant. It's never wise to generalise. Beating kids, now, that's a whole other story. I don't believe anyone has the right to deliberately injure a child.

There definitely are ways to be ethical around eating meat, but it depends on what your ethics are. I think factory farming is repulsive and it is damaging for the environment but it also takes up far less space. Then organic and free-range farming is much kinder on the animal... But unfortunately takes up much more space. It's too late most of the time, though. You can't bring back that forest, at least not in our lifetime. It may as well be used for farming. Australia has lost over 70% of it's natural native vegetation, by the way. Over 46% is for cattle grazing. I just find that really sad. But there isn't anything we can do about it now. And not everyone really feels the way I do about "the world" - I am a real conservationist, but some people see that kind of progression as positive, at least for people.

It's great that you think about where your meat comes from, though. If more people did that, it would make a bit of difference. Luckily there does seem to be a revoloution in the food world where people are not only eating free-range, but also eating less of it. I agree with you around people not eating stuff like haggis, it's so wasteful throwing those parts away, people should eat all of the animal.
Eating meat itself isn't an unethical or unenviromental act. But farming almost always is. The only way to farm without causing damage to the environment would be to raise your own, really, but not everyone can do that, so it's just one of those things. I'm not gonna lie, it's not like I don't have a car. We all leave a carbon footprint. It's just about reducing it as much as possible while still enjoying the things you love.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn16...costs.html

I get where you are coming from, but I don't think it's bad parenting to not spank kids either. As I said, I was spanked, but my younger siblings weren't, and to be honest, they are much better turned out then me. I don't think it was spanking related at all, but I think that the actual parenting (I am the eldest, so therefore the test child : P ) improved with time. When I have kids I am going to try avoiding it, I think there are others ways of doing it, but I don't judge people unless they are spanking their kids on a regular basis, and then I think it's crap parenting. There are certain situations where I understand it (like the one you mentioned) but I think if you have to do it often, you aren't doing it right.