05-31-2012, 05:29 PM
Billy,
It's not as though it's an inspired poem either. Of course that is the truth most of the time, we mark time, honing our craft until the muse decides to give us something worthy of writing and then hope we are up to the challenge.
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Arachne,
This is an answer/or response to your coment. It ended up being more than I had intended, and maybe more than you care to read. I began answering implication about what you wrote and that caused more explaining than I meant to do. I'm not completly sure I got back to the answer I was trying to justify with the explaination.
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In poetry we attempt to convey with words what is really beyond words to convey. We attempt to combine words in such a way they will give rise to something greater than the mere "literal meaning", in other words we strive for a "literary meaning", that which touches on, or reflects that which all great art connects with. Ultimately, this greater meaning only arises if there is a foundation from which it can arise. If the foundation is poorly built, then there is no chance of this occurring. The foundation is composed of the literal words, put in such an order as we call grammatical/syntactical, and held in place with punctuation. If the words are misspelled, if the structure leads to confusion, if we cannot find the end of one thought and the beginning of another, we cannot make sense of the foundation. I will not go into them all, but there are just certain things, the way the human mind works, that we need to be a certain way. These are the basic rules for the way we understand reality and our interactions with it. Things must be put in a context in order to be understood. Whether poetry or prose, we can make no sense of it if we start reading halfway through, conversely, we can make so sense of it if the writer starts writing halfway through.
Upon this foundation we add our tropes, images and descriptions; our comparison and contrast in order to create something new. When we are finished we have this house standing in front of us. At that point I can say here! If someone says, what is it? I can do nothing, as "it" was the point of the poem. The poem either did or did not bring it to life, but if it did not I cannot explain what it is supposed to be, that was the purpose of the poem. I can discuss if there is a clarity problem in the foundation, or if my metaphors are consistent and do what I want. As the end result of a poem is supposed to be greater than the aggregate, it either happens or doesn't. I can go back and discuss the pieces, but this has nothing to do with the ultimate meaning of the poem. The ultimate meaning of a poem can be apprehended, but it can never be discussed or dissected, or any other thing our minds would try and do, because it exists beyond the rational.
Dale
It's not as though it's an inspired poem either. Of course that is the truth most of the time, we mark time, honing our craft until the muse decides to give us something worthy of writing and then hope we are up to the challenge.
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Arachne,
This is an answer/or response to your coment. It ended up being more than I had intended, and maybe more than you care to read. I began answering implication about what you wrote and that caused more explaining than I meant to do. I'm not completly sure I got back to the answer I was trying to justify with the explaination.
-----------------------------------------------------
In poetry we attempt to convey with words what is really beyond words to convey. We attempt to combine words in such a way they will give rise to something greater than the mere "literal meaning", in other words we strive for a "literary meaning", that which touches on, or reflects that which all great art connects with. Ultimately, this greater meaning only arises if there is a foundation from which it can arise. If the foundation is poorly built, then there is no chance of this occurring. The foundation is composed of the literal words, put in such an order as we call grammatical/syntactical, and held in place with punctuation. If the words are misspelled, if the structure leads to confusion, if we cannot find the end of one thought and the beginning of another, we cannot make sense of the foundation. I will not go into them all, but there are just certain things, the way the human mind works, that we need to be a certain way. These are the basic rules for the way we understand reality and our interactions with it. Things must be put in a context in order to be understood. Whether poetry or prose, we can make no sense of it if we start reading halfway through, conversely, we can make so sense of it if the writer starts writing halfway through.
Upon this foundation we add our tropes, images and descriptions; our comparison and contrast in order to create something new. When we are finished we have this house standing in front of us. At that point I can say here! If someone says, what is it? I can do nothing, as "it" was the point of the poem. The poem either did or did not bring it to life, but if it did not I cannot explain what it is supposed to be, that was the purpose of the poem. I can discuss if there is a clarity problem in the foundation, or if my metaphors are consistent and do what I want. As the end result of a poem is supposed to be greater than the aggregate, it either happens or doesn't. I can go back and discuss the pieces, but this has nothing to do with the ultimate meaning of the poem. The ultimate meaning of a poem can be apprehended, but it can never be discussed or dissected, or any other thing our minds would try and do, because it exists beyond the rational.
Dale
How long after picking up the brush, the first masterpiece?
The goal is not to obfuscate that which is clear, but make clear that which isn't.
The goal is not to obfuscate that which is clear, but make clear that which isn't.