02-24-2012, 08:24 PM
(02-23-2012, 08:49 AM)Leanne Wrote: Dale, Mark, what you are both referring to is called perfect or true rhyme. This is not the only definition for rhyme, regardless of what it might say in a generic dictionary -- I don't refer to my Pocket Oxford for a complete breakdown of all the subtleties, complexities and connotations of any technical term. The word "insane", in common parlance and in dictionary definition, will have a much more complex meaning were I to consult a psychiatric journal. Similarly, the most common understanding of rhyme in contemporary Western culture is that of perfect rhyme, but it is not the only kind.I should not have thought that 'insane' was still used as a term of art in psychiatry, any more than the old categories of idiot, imbecile, natural fool, or 'not so found'. Or loony or fruit-cake.
In French verse, identical rhymes are absolutely acceptable -- sometimes not simply that single stressed syllable word, but also rime riche (Edward gave an example of this, with far/afar) and holorime (the same phonetics throughout two entire lines, though not necessarily the same words, eg. "Wood, you kiss the sky/ Would you kiss this guy?"). In Irish verse the rules are way too complicated but you're only considered to have a proper rhyme if certain vowel sounds match up to certain other consonants... but they're Irish, and nobody pays any attention. Assonance, alliteration (head rhyme), slant rhyme, off-rhyme, cross rhyme, sight rhyme... the list goes on, but it does most certainly include identical rhyme, or repetition.
Incidentally, are you aware that many people do not consider two words to rhyme if one word contains the entirety of the other (eg. told/old, wall/all, swell/well)?
(02-22-2012, 10:43 PM)Erthona Wrote: 3.This definition refers to what is more properly called "end rhyme". It completely discounts chain rhyme, climbing rhyme, internal rhyme, cross rhyme... my point is that it's all very well for a layman to say "rhyme" and think that umbrella term is good enough, but when we're talking the technicalities of poetry, we must be more specific.
verse or poetry having correspondence in the terminal sounds of the lines.
Is this marble cake a chocolate cake? No it isn't.
Is this marble cake a cake? Yes it is.
Is know/know a perfect rhyme? No it isn't.
Is know/know a rhyme? Yes it is.
I cannot see in what way alliteration is a rhyme; it's alliteration. To say otherwise, is like some enthusiast getting hold of a perfectly good vegetable, a tomato say, and pompously telling everyone who will listen that it is not a vegetable. Why? Because he has determined that it is a fruit.
Whilst agreeing with every word, jot and tittle, I cannot help but notice that the examples you give almost all include the word 'rhyme'. This suggests to me, that the essence of rhyme, is sounding the same-- and that the examples you give, are deviating from that essence.
Besides which, I am in bad humour this am, since I spent forever last night, setting out for you guys the rules of one of Arabic meters, to see if some bright spark could do an English version. And then I brushed my hand on some --------------*!?*--- key, and it was all wiped out. Even such titbits as the line (tent) being divided into two hemistichs, the breast,being the first, and the rump being the second. Time for lunch!


. Assonance, alliteration (head rhyme), slant rhyme, off-rhyme, cross rhyme, sight rhyme... the list goes on, but it does most certainly include identical rhyme, or repetition.