01-19-2012, 02:11 AM
Thanks Billy. Sorry I was so slow in responding, I didn't notice that you had written this.
(are all commas needed?)
Probably not. The idea was to show where to break the line, but I think it is overdone. I had forgotten that I put all these comma/stops in here, plus they are nor really doing what I intended them to do. I'll definitely have to fix that.
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the repeat of mind so soon jars a little
Maybe change the first line to,
"You will feel me, against your thoughts, as you fade, to dreamless sleep."
I want to keep the internal rhyme of mind/blind in L3
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"in you I will bore, my lust, my lust feels a bit cliche"
How about if I removed the comma, so it reads..
"in you I will bore my lust"
There is also a play on words here, when she gives birth she bares his lust.
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the repeat of breeding feels a bit heavy i also see whore and a few roe so i won't mention any after this
Yeah, that is a problem. Part of it is, is this is how the character talks, as there is nothing very subtle about him, but I do need to find a way to change it up a bit. I guess my justification of it is that it is suppose to feel like the pounding of a hammer, pretty much just the single-minded brute force approach. Demons are on the dull but melodramatic side after all
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fulfil, not sure if yours in a usa version
"fullfill" that's a typo. I have no idea how that got through spell check, thanks for catching that. That is a common spelling error for me, which I keep making despite being aware of it.
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"it works, though i think the 15 syl thing you have going on lends to a lot of packing out. not that thats a bad thing here, it just makes it a little prose, jmo"
Actually, it is alternating 15/14 syllable lines. Originally this part was not in this form and I decided to regularize it so it matched with the rest of the poem. For a short piece, I think you are correct, and maybe I should put it back more to what it was. The format of 15/14 I created so it would have a form that would not be too constricting, or be too monotonous over a long piece which is basically an epic. I have never felt that any of the Greek forms really work well in English, and I was looking for something that seemed more natural. So in that sense it is closer to prose, which is why I have the rhyming couplets at the end of the lines. Using couplets with a shorter line would be a disaster, but my hope was, with such long lines they would help to tie the lines together without becoming idiotic. I suppose I could have written it in blank verse, such as Milton did in "Paradise Lost", but straight iambic has never seemed natural to me, it seems to force to many syntactical reverses that are not endemic to the language. I also wanted the rhyme to help keep it fresh and interesting. As rhyme is generally no problem for me, it does not create an undue burden, and I don't think there are any that seem overly forced. Anyway, that was my rational for using this form. I personally like the way it reads, especially once you get past the Prologue. There is actually another section between the Prologue and the first verse, which is in a slightly different form. It's based on Coleridge's "Kublai Khan", but it has been gone over quite a bit so I did not include it. I'll put it at the end, of this just in case you want to see what it looks like.
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"the commas followed by caps throw me off a little but that's just me i think."
Actually I don't like that either, that was a formatting problem with that version of word. I need to fix that, thanks for pointing that out. I have always hated that affectation of capping the start of every line. I guess I can put up with it in a Sonnet, as that is traditional, but in anything else I find it irritating, and ad hoc.
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"Seduced by wisdom’s whore by this goddess-slut mankind was awed, the grammar feels a bit off "
Yeah, I think I could use em dashes to make "by this goddess-slut" parenthetical, or at the least put a comma after "whore." Plus that line should end with a period not a comma. Good catch.
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this reminds me of Gilgamesh and not just because of Enkidu and then it moves through time like a knife. the narrative is excellent here and the 15 syl works really well. i've read this section about 5 times and it flows really
well. i'll rest here for a while and get back it
Yes, it is a bit brain numbing. I can actually write it fairly quickly, it is the editing that takes so much time. I can write a verse the lenght of IV in about an hour, but then the editing takes 30 hours to make sure the punctuation is the way it needs to be so that it is read correctly.
"it moves through time like a knife"
Thanks, I appreciate that. That means it is not dragging, which is a major aspect I wanted to address with using this form. It is one of the reasons I choose to stay away from blank verse, as it just seems to start to drag after awhile. It works OK for Shakespeare because of the change from character to character, but in Milton it just drags, and then with Pope's "Rape of the Lock" because of the rhyming couplets it becomes to singsong. To me only Tennyson seems able to keep blank verse fresh, and obviously I am no Tennyson. Closer to an Elliot I suppose,
Let us look through grayish pants, with only half pressed pleats,
lain out, here and all about, like steamrolled flattened sheep!
(That sort of thing I can write all day long )
Please keep me posted on if you think it continues to work in the next sections.
Thanks,
Dale
----------------------------------------------------------------------
INTRODUCTION
Pattern 76788 accentual feet
In Euridu did Enki build, a wondrous garden there, 7
Suspended above the Tigress, on naught but will and air. 6
Strange and wondrous beings savored, the gift of this ancient park,7
Flowers turquoise-crimson grew, amidst giant trees of gold-red bark.8
From highest of all earthly creatures, to the lowest who creep and crawl, 8
Ensorcelled ‘round this ancient ground, a clay fired earthen wall. 7
Its height one score of men, its girth two iters wide, 6
Encompassing all, within its bounds, and every soul alive. 7
Of all the sounds an ear can hear, here no ticking of the clock, 8
Movement sans time to measure, this the great lord’s paradox. 8
Without matter, alchemy freed the massless embryon gold, 7
No scale yet made by man, can weigh it to be sold. 6
To our father Adam given, when dew was freshly ground, 7
This birthright saved for many an age, that evil’s thieving might be bound. 8
Abhorrent death in darkness conquered, need fear & self subjection more, 8
To unbind the path to paradise, and open Eden’s doors. 7
(are all commas needed?)
Probably not. The idea was to show where to break the line, but I think it is overdone. I had forgotten that I put all these comma/stops in here, plus they are nor really doing what I intended them to do. I'll definitely have to fix that.
------------------------------------------------------------------
the repeat of mind so soon jars a little
Maybe change the first line to,
"You will feel me, against your thoughts, as you fade, to dreamless sleep."
I want to keep the internal rhyme of mind/blind in L3
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
"in you I will bore, my lust, my lust feels a bit cliche"
How about if I removed the comma, so it reads..
"in you I will bore my lust"
There is also a play on words here, when she gives birth she bares his lust.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
the repeat of breeding feels a bit heavy i also see whore and a few roe so i won't mention any after this
Yeah, that is a problem. Part of it is, is this is how the character talks, as there is nothing very subtle about him, but I do need to find a way to change it up a bit. I guess my justification of it is that it is suppose to feel like the pounding of a hammer, pretty much just the single-minded brute force approach. Demons are on the dull but melodramatic side after all
----------------------------------------------------------------------
fulfil, not sure if yours in a usa version
"fullfill" that's a typo. I have no idea how that got through spell check, thanks for catching that. That is a common spelling error for me, which I keep making despite being aware of it.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"it works, though i think the 15 syl thing you have going on lends to a lot of packing out. not that thats a bad thing here, it just makes it a little prose, jmo"
Actually, it is alternating 15/14 syllable lines. Originally this part was not in this form and I decided to regularize it so it matched with the rest of the poem. For a short piece, I think you are correct, and maybe I should put it back more to what it was. The format of 15/14 I created so it would have a form that would not be too constricting, or be too monotonous over a long piece which is basically an epic. I have never felt that any of the Greek forms really work well in English, and I was looking for something that seemed more natural. So in that sense it is closer to prose, which is why I have the rhyming couplets at the end of the lines. Using couplets with a shorter line would be a disaster, but my hope was, with such long lines they would help to tie the lines together without becoming idiotic. I suppose I could have written it in blank verse, such as Milton did in "Paradise Lost", but straight iambic has never seemed natural to me, it seems to force to many syntactical reverses that are not endemic to the language. I also wanted the rhyme to help keep it fresh and interesting. As rhyme is generally no problem for me, it does not create an undue burden, and I don't think there are any that seem overly forced. Anyway, that was my rational for using this form. I personally like the way it reads, especially once you get past the Prologue. There is actually another section between the Prologue and the first verse, which is in a slightly different form. It's based on Coleridge's "Kublai Khan", but it has been gone over quite a bit so I did not include it. I'll put it at the end, of this just in case you want to see what it looks like.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
"the commas followed by caps throw me off a little but that's just me i think."
Actually I don't like that either, that was a formatting problem with that version of word. I need to fix that, thanks for pointing that out. I have always hated that affectation of capping the start of every line. I guess I can put up with it in a Sonnet, as that is traditional, but in anything else I find it irritating, and ad hoc.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Seduced by wisdom’s whore by this goddess-slut mankind was awed, the grammar feels a bit off "
Yeah, I think I could use em dashes to make "by this goddess-slut" parenthetical, or at the least put a comma after "whore." Plus that line should end with a period not a comma. Good catch.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
this reminds me of Gilgamesh and not just because of Enkidu and then it moves through time like a knife. the narrative is excellent here and the 15 syl works really well. i've read this section about 5 times and it flows really
well. i'll rest here for a while and get back it
Yes, it is a bit brain numbing. I can actually write it fairly quickly, it is the editing that takes so much time. I can write a verse the lenght of IV in about an hour, but then the editing takes 30 hours to make sure the punctuation is the way it needs to be so that it is read correctly.
"it moves through time like a knife"
Thanks, I appreciate that. That means it is not dragging, which is a major aspect I wanted to address with using this form. It is one of the reasons I choose to stay away from blank verse, as it just seems to start to drag after awhile. It works OK for Shakespeare because of the change from character to character, but in Milton it just drags, and then with Pope's "Rape of the Lock" because of the rhyming couplets it becomes to singsong. To me only Tennyson seems able to keep blank verse fresh, and obviously I am no Tennyson. Closer to an Elliot I suppose,
Let us look through grayish pants, with only half pressed pleats,
lain out, here and all about, like steamrolled flattened sheep!
(That sort of thing I can write all day long
) Please keep me posted on if you think it continues to work in the next sections.
Thanks,
Dale
----------------------------------------------------------------------
INTRODUCTION
Pattern 76788 accentual feet
In Euridu did Enki build, a wondrous garden there, 7
Suspended above the Tigress, on naught but will and air. 6
Strange and wondrous beings savored, the gift of this ancient park,7
Flowers turquoise-crimson grew, amidst giant trees of gold-red bark.8
From highest of all earthly creatures, to the lowest who creep and crawl, 8
Ensorcelled ‘round this ancient ground, a clay fired earthen wall. 7
Its height one score of men, its girth two iters wide, 6
Encompassing all, within its bounds, and every soul alive. 7
Of all the sounds an ear can hear, here no ticking of the clock, 8
Movement sans time to measure, this the great lord’s paradox. 8
Without matter, alchemy freed the massless embryon gold, 7
No scale yet made by man, can weigh it to be sold. 6
To our father Adam given, when dew was freshly ground, 7
This birthright saved for many an age, that evil’s thieving might be bound. 8
Abhorrent death in darkness conquered, need fear & self subjection more, 8
To unbind the path to paradise, and open Eden’s doors. 7
How long after picking up the brush, the first masterpiece?
The goal is not to obfuscate that which is clear, but make clear that which isn't.
The goal is not to obfuscate that which is clear, but make clear that which isn't.