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what is our own ground? holland, europe, the usa, russia, the philippines
china, india, pakistan, afghanistan sudan, russia, mozambique, or do you mean the europe and the usa?.
attacks
i class killing 4000 people on foriegn soil an attack, unless of course you believe it didn't happen or the usa gov did it itself. i class multiple accounts of terror attacks an act of war and invasion. every day i see and hear reports of extremists from outside pakistan entering their country and devastating their infrastructure in a bid to destroy their society. do you seriously think all the trouble has come about because we invade iraq? or because drones attack targets on the afghan/pakistan border? if we never invaded and before we did invade life was exactly the same there. same rules same oppressions. you can't use us as an excuse for their brutalities. if no iraq invasion had taken place if no afghan war took place they'd still be screaming kill the infidel if anyone drew the same cartoon.
sorry but i can't get my head round this " he drew that, they invaded this part of of the world, we should attack them" argument. if we attacked their country for a million years, it doesn't give them the right to put bounty on someones head for drawing a cartoon. it gives them a right to fight back but to threaten death over a cartoon. sorry, i can't see the logic.
indonesia. it's documented there as well with convictions of dozens.
the Philippines, it's also documented there with hundreds of deaths and conviction. each one of these places has a muslim terrorist group or org in place and it's all documented. even in russia. Moscow, Female Fedayeen suicide bomber kills six people near the Kremlin and injures at least fourteen, including several college students. the list is endless. it really is.
to say the west caused all the problems over there i find astounding. there has been in fighting on the same scale or bigger before any country was invaded by the west. you think all the bombing in pakistan and india and the Yemen. and iraq and on and on is because of the west? it's much more to do with taking ownership of a people, race or land. the pakistan border has moved more and more into pakistn. the taliban and al Qaeda have over run the swat valley areas and more. it's so bad the pakistan gov has no idea whos who. yes the west invaded, yes they cause much harm but don't blame them for what the taliban and alqueda ever did. what they were doing way before even the russians invaded afghanistan. and all this from one cartoon. it boils down to one unholy drawing? most of the bombing and fighting over there is happening within their own socio politico environment, independently of the west jm2cents
(09-24-2010, 07:27 AM)mr.moobs Wrote: This is true, but then again - we havent really seen any military invasion of muslims on our own ground for the last couple of centuries.you think the wouldn't physically invade if they could?
what is our own ground? holland, europe, the usa, russia, the philippines
china, india, pakistan, afghanistan sudan, russia, mozambique, or do you mean the europe and the usa?.
attacks
i class killing 4000 people on foriegn soil an attack, unless of course you believe it didn't happen or the usa gov did it itself. i class multiple accounts of terror attacks an act of war and invasion. every day i see and hear reports of extremists from outside pakistan entering their country and devastating their infrastructure in a bid to destroy their society. do you seriously think all the trouble has come about because we invade iraq? or because drones attack targets on the afghan/pakistan border? if we never invaded and before we did invade life was exactly the same there. same rules same oppressions. you can't use us as an excuse for their brutalities. if no iraq invasion had taken place if no afghan war took place they'd still be screaming kill the infidel if anyone drew the same cartoon.
(09-24-2010, 07:27 AM)mr.moobs Wrote: If you know the weak spots, its easy to troll. Knowing well the taboos of christianity we could all drive heaps of fundamentalist christians to the very extreme of their violent anger, without burning anything. And what would that gain us? Great landwinnings in the battle of freedom of speech? Or just more angry people ready to go to extremes for their whatever they believe in?and though it is getting a bit off topic re the cartoon. are you saying we invaded they're country there fore you can't create a cartoon against our religion. making cartoons to mock the stupidity of religion isn't something new. if anything christianity gets it more than most. as far as book burning goes. i think the last lot to do it were the taliban in order to subjugate the afghans. and they did it en masse. before that pol pot did it and before that hitlers mob. the cartoon though i disagree with it made more than one valid statement about society and religion as a global entity. as for anti christian sentiments. the west is full of it. it's allowed to speak out against christianity. if you have islamic parents in the middle east and you say," hey dad fuck islan i don't believe in allah" the odds are you'll be in deep shit. possibly even stoned to death. as for great landwinnings in the freedom of speech. i'm a bit confused. what landwinning? we already have freedom of speech (within a paradigm ) we don't draw cartoons or call the catholic church a nest of pedofiles because we're extending free speech. we say it because thats what we blieve. maybe the guy who did the original cartoon thought it was a good way of showing extremists up for waht they were. people ready to kill at the drop of a hat. (excuse the pun) to say that physical action wasn't intend from the extremists is something i can't agree with. searching someone down and smacking them in the face is a physical attack. yo really think salmon rushdi (a book not cartoon) wrote what he did because he had free speech? he wrote because he saw something he felt was fundamentally wrong. in his case it ws a book. in the artist's case it was a cartoon. this final instance a book with the cartoon in it.
sorry but i can't get my head round this " he drew that, they invaded this part of of the world, we should attack them" argument. if we attacked their country for a million years, it doesn't give them the right to put bounty on someones head for drawing a cartoon. it gives them a right to fight back but to threaten death over a cartoon. sorry, i can't see the logic.
(09-24-2010, 07:27 AM)mr.moobs Wrote: Please correct me if I'm wrong (I'm sure you will), but I can only remeber two allegedly 'islamic' terrorsit bombings in Europe. One was the london busse, the other was the Madrid Subway. There has never been anything but allegations and media spin to support the now accepted theory that the mullahs were behind it. (what happened to judicial rights???!!!1 - innocent until proven guilty)so you think indonesia, the philippines, africa, russia, and another dozen countries where islamim extremist have killed in the name of allah doesn't count then? if anything europe and the usa are the tip or the extremists iceberg. look to the sudan and darfur where there actually trying to take over the country, through starvation, torture, and terrorist attacks. all documented.
The rest of the stories (not mentioning 911 by request), goes on in the middle-east and is directly linked to the various conflicts caused by western and/or israeli military presence in those areas.
indonesia. it's documented there as well with convictions of dozens.
the Philippines, it's also documented there with hundreds of deaths and conviction. each one of these places has a muslim terrorist group or org in place and it's all documented. even in russia. Moscow, Female Fedayeen suicide bomber kills six people near the Kremlin and injures at least fourteen, including several college students. the list is endless. it really is.
to say the west caused all the problems over there i find astounding. there has been in fighting on the same scale or bigger before any country was invaded by the west. you think all the bombing in pakistan and india and the Yemen. and iraq and on and on is because of the west? it's much more to do with taking ownership of a people, race or land. the pakistan border has moved more and more into pakistn. the taliban and al Qaeda have over run the swat valley areas and more. it's so bad the pakistan gov has no idea whos who. yes the west invaded, yes they cause much harm but don't blame them for what the taliban and alqueda ever did. what they were doing way before even the russians invaded afghanistan. and all this from one cartoon. it boils down to one unholy drawing? most of the bombing and fighting over there is happening within their own socio politico environment, independently of the west jm2cents