06-26-2019, 11:06 AM
Churinga
I’m going to stop asking questions for a moment and agree with busker - you’re over interpreting. For example, North, along and point all have o’s in them, but not the same ‘o’ sound. There are essentially only 5 vowels. If Bly used the same sound, we’d call it assonance. Same with dead and seals: a visual rhyme, but that’s not the same thing. If and fallen is not an example of alliteration. I’d agree with about 4 of your examples.
I used stop, moment, you’re and over in my first sentence coincidentally. Sentence and coincidentally were an accident also. Not trying to be snarky, just pointing out how often we use the same vowels and vowel sounds.
But rhythm exists - just not applied with forethought. And I’d argue that rhythm must exist in any English sentence, because English is an accentual-syllabic language - metrical - and on it’s basic level rhythm is based on the syllabic word overlying the accent of a normally iambic foot.
Where rowens said he improvises and feels the beats as he writes them, I prefer to break down a prose draft of what I have written, break it into lines of similar length, then look at the meter. I may or may not maintain the same meter, strict or otherwise, throughout a poem - I normally do - but then I begin looking for words which play with or against the beat. Meter is a time signature. A kick drum keeps the beat, but the drummer can vary rhythms according to the beat on his other drums. Poetry is the same.
If I constantly place word stress on the accent of the meter, the base rhythm will get predictable and tiresome. Meter has two levels of ‘stress’ (accented or unaccented) but rhythm can have more. And thats before we begin considering caesura, enjambment , cadence- all the elements of sound against time.
Once I have the base rhythm, I begin considering words for their sounds, secondary meanings to support an analogy or allegory, etc.
I use this technique in free verse as well, though maintain a meter or line length is less important, it still helps me establish a base rhythm.
This is not meant to imply word pronunciation does not affect rhythm - it does. Just getting back to the basic question about how you personally construct a rhythm.
So churinga, I’d modify you’re statement about sounds creating rhythm. I’d word it as sounds affect rhythm.
They also affect intonation, or the melody of a line, if you will.
I’m going to stop asking questions for a moment and agree with busker - you’re over interpreting. For example, North, along and point all have o’s in them, but not the same ‘o’ sound. There are essentially only 5 vowels. If Bly used the same sound, we’d call it assonance. Same with dead and seals: a visual rhyme, but that’s not the same thing. If and fallen is not an example of alliteration. I’d agree with about 4 of your examples.
I used stop, moment, you’re and over in my first sentence coincidentally. Sentence and coincidentally were an accident also. Not trying to be snarky, just pointing out how often we use the same vowels and vowel sounds.
(06-26-2019, 08:51 AM)busker Wrote:(06-26-2019, 08:11 AM)Seraphim Wrote:Not one that stands out from normal speech(06-26-2019, 06:57 AM)busker Wrote: Please read note above. Sonics and rhythm are one type of tool used in poetry and are used where appropriate. It is not needed in all situations and not in this one.Are you suggesting this example has no rhythm?
But rhythm exists - just not applied with forethought. And I’d argue that rhythm must exist in any English sentence, because English is an accentual-syllabic language - metrical - and on it’s basic level rhythm is based on the syllabic word overlying the accent of a normally iambic foot.
Where rowens said he improvises and feels the beats as he writes them, I prefer to break down a prose draft of what I have written, break it into lines of similar length, then look at the meter. I may or may not maintain the same meter, strict or otherwise, throughout a poem - I normally do - but then I begin looking for words which play with or against the beat. Meter is a time signature. A kick drum keeps the beat, but the drummer can vary rhythms according to the beat on his other drums. Poetry is the same.
If I constantly place word stress on the accent of the meter, the base rhythm will get predictable and tiresome. Meter has two levels of ‘stress’ (accented or unaccented) but rhythm can have more. And thats before we begin considering caesura, enjambment , cadence- all the elements of sound against time.
Once I have the base rhythm, I begin considering words for their sounds, secondary meanings to support an analogy or allegory, etc.
I use this technique in free verse as well, though maintain a meter or line length is less important, it still helps me establish a base rhythm.
This is not meant to imply word pronunciation does not affect rhythm - it does. Just getting back to the basic question about how you personally construct a rhythm.
So churinga, I’d modify you’re statement about sounds creating rhythm. I’d word it as sounds affect rhythm.
They also affect intonation, or the melody of a line, if you will.
There is no escape from metre; there is only mastery. TS Eliot