06-16-2018, 11:32 AM
Hey guys, thanks a lot for reading and for giving me your thoughts. The BBCode got super duper messy so my responses below are a bit jumbled up and not properly quoted, but hopefully it should be clear enough what I'm trying to respond to. (What I get for using the "quick reply" feature when I wasn't actually doing a quick reply.) Really appreciate youse having responded, I have a lot of little bits to tweak and other parts to rethink. The last stanza definitely needs a bit of overhauling, but I'm still trying to figure out whether the Ballyhupahaun stanza needs to be completely rethought or if it's on the right track.
Thanks again,
Graham
--i like the fact-like diction of this first stanza, although it runs a bit close to feeling like sentences that you've split up into lines. tightening up the diction, and adding a few choice descriptors, might give it a more poignant feeling.
--'thus' makes this read as if it was cut and pasted from a textbook. as does 'therefore'
The line breaks/indentation seem to be more about disguising the prose than anything else.
Weirdly enough, that's actually the opposite of what happened. The meter and sestina form were more or less picked before I started properly writing it, so more than anything I was writing to fixed form while deliberately trying to make the space stanzas feel as matter-of-fact and un-poem-y as I could. (The line breaks are sort of an archaism, but I suppose I was trying to stress that contrast between the language of the space stanzas and the form in which they're written. Part of me is nearly tempted to "un-break" the more "personal" stanzas.)
Although you might be write in saying that the language of the other stanza doesn't quite contrast enough with the space ones, making the whole thing a little flatter than intended. Even, as you say, the way "'escape my sight' is a bit self-conscious, after all the (deliberately) unpoetic language," is probably the result of not getting that contrast in the language through.
--tidal what? tidal flexing, the friction caused by one body, like a moon, orbiting a larger one
--what streaks of red? lacerations? yep
--the introduction of sex is a bit sudden, maybe allude to it more explicitly earlier? Where do you think fingers will end up if they glide up your leg?
also, 'spewing' is cliche and can be done better. yep, you're right there also x 2, i like that it isn't obvious who has had the orgasm.
--"I really like you, Graham," breath- yep, you're right. bad habit of mine
--another interesting vignette, but lacking the same arrow-like focus of the last stanza in my opinion. you might be right on that, too. i guess the issue is that the others were more concrete scenes, where this one kinda tries to do more in the same amount of space, so it probably ended up a little less vivid. also, green and red brings to mind christmas, but you may have considered that already. haha, that never really occurred to me to be honest. can't really change the pair to be honest unless i redo the stanza completely, because of the attempted contrast between the fox/grass, Irish/British-nationalist/unionist, and being red/green colourblind.
--alright, the repetition of 'streak' and 'jet' is starting to get old. it would be better if the words were used in new capacities. yeah, i should probably jig this stanza up a bit, a lot of it repeats phrases/partial images from the rest of the poem without really adding a lot to them
--intentional allusion to the u.s.? huh. more than one country uses those colours in their flag
very lovely and very interesting. i'm not going to comment heavily on the cutting apart of words, and the indent of every other line, as its effects are mostly lost on me except for perhaps its strange otherworldliness. That was pretty much the intended effect alright. i like the touch of the italic titles, and the way the stanzas are ordered.
----
is 'secretions' the right word (technically)?
It this right? Did l-c observations show more than probable shape?
probably not, I took one or two liberties along the way and forget which bits aren't exactly true.
the leg/red/said rhyme is a bit intrusive.
The sudden appearance of rhyme seems odd.
pretty much any rhyme that shows up was an accident. none was deliberate anyway
Not following how something can be said by it being retracted (unsaying).
a couple of different ways
I'm probably missing something (a lot) but I don't see how this verse relates to any of the others.
Same problem, for me, as with ‘Oumuamua, not making/feeling any connection to the others.
there certainly isn't any direct one, and I let the sort-of-metaphorical relationship that I had in the back of my head between the space ones and the others be pretty indirect so anyone reading it can play with it how they will. there isn't really any grand allegory that i'm trying to get across as regards what they're supposed to be doing/saying there.
what does 'bloodly' mean? I only found an urban dictionary entry for shoes. to be honest, i have no idea what possessed me to use this non-word beyond the fact that i liked the way it felt in my mouth. i ought to change that line.
anyone getting this far will likely know about solar sails, and not need the parenthetical observation - not to mention the 'jet' vs 'rocket' debate. needed to use 'jet' while talking about something that in no way involved jets
Just what does 'robot convoy' mean? (Corporate, National, International...) a convoy of robots.
google dictionary: a group of ships or vehicles travelling together, typically one accompanied by armed troops, warships, or other vehicles for protection. "a convoy of lorries." synonyms: group, fleet, cavalcade, motorcade, cortège, caravan, company, line, train, procession
no idea what 'three West Highlands' means. (terriers, men, districts...?) terriers
an 'urban fox' in 'mountain fields' ? what i was trying to get across was the contrast between an urban fox and a rural one
(possibly 'in' for first 'its' in last line). yup, good call. i had debated between the two for a while myself.
I don't think the verse order is the most effective.
Perhaps consider;
Ashbourne, Jupiter, Rosie Hackett Bridge, Centauri, A boundary.
Not sure whether I could given the sestina form. :/
Thanks again,
Graham
--i like the fact-like diction of this first stanza, although it runs a bit close to feeling like sentences that you've split up into lines. tightening up the diction, and adding a few choice descriptors, might give it a more poignant feeling.
--'thus' makes this read as if it was cut and pasted from a textbook. as does 'therefore'
The line breaks/indentation seem to be more about disguising the prose than anything else.
Weirdly enough, that's actually the opposite of what happened. The meter and sestina form were more or less picked before I started properly writing it, so more than anything I was writing to fixed form while deliberately trying to make the space stanzas feel as matter-of-fact and un-poem-y as I could. (The line breaks are sort of an archaism, but I suppose I was trying to stress that contrast between the language of the space stanzas and the form in which they're written. Part of me is nearly tempted to "un-break" the more "personal" stanzas.)
Although you might be write in saying that the language of the other stanza doesn't quite contrast enough with the space ones, making the whole thing a little flatter than intended. Even, as you say, the way "'escape my sight' is a bit self-conscious, after all the (deliberately) unpoetic language," is probably the result of not getting that contrast in the language through.
--tidal what? tidal flexing, the friction caused by one body, like a moon, orbiting a larger one
--what streaks of red? lacerations? yep
--the introduction of sex is a bit sudden, maybe allude to it more explicitly earlier? Where do you think fingers will end up if they glide up your leg?
also, 'spewing' is cliche and can be done better. yep, you're right there also x 2, i like that it isn't obvious who has had the orgasm.--"I really like you, Graham," breath- yep, you're right. bad habit of mine
--another interesting vignette, but lacking the same arrow-like focus of the last stanza in my opinion. you might be right on that, too. i guess the issue is that the others were more concrete scenes, where this one kinda tries to do more in the same amount of space, so it probably ended up a little less vivid. also, green and red brings to mind christmas, but you may have considered that already. haha, that never really occurred to me to be honest. can't really change the pair to be honest unless i redo the stanza completely, because of the attempted contrast between the fox/grass, Irish/British-nationalist/unionist, and being red/green colourblind.
--alright, the repetition of 'streak' and 'jet' is starting to get old. it would be better if the words were used in new capacities. yeah, i should probably jig this stanza up a bit, a lot of it repeats phrases/partial images from the rest of the poem without really adding a lot to them
--intentional allusion to the u.s.? huh. more than one country uses those colours in their flag
very lovely and very interesting. i'm not going to comment heavily on the cutting apart of words, and the indent of every other line, as its effects are mostly lost on me except for perhaps its strange otherworldliness. That was pretty much the intended effect alright. i like the touch of the italic titles, and the way the stanzas are ordered.
----
is 'secretions' the right word (technically)?
It this right? Did l-c observations show more than probable shape?
probably not, I took one or two liberties along the way and forget which bits aren't exactly true.
the leg/red/said rhyme is a bit intrusive.
The sudden appearance of rhyme seems odd.
pretty much any rhyme that shows up was an accident. none was deliberate anyway
Not following how something can be said by it being retracted (unsaying).
a couple of different ways
I'm probably missing something (a lot) but I don't see how this verse relates to any of the others.
Same problem, for me, as with ‘Oumuamua, not making/feeling any connection to the others.
there certainly isn't any direct one, and I let the sort-of-metaphorical relationship that I had in the back of my head between the space ones and the others be pretty indirect so anyone reading it can play with it how they will. there isn't really any grand allegory that i'm trying to get across as regards what they're supposed to be doing/saying there.
what does 'bloodly' mean? I only found an urban dictionary entry for shoes. to be honest, i have no idea what possessed me to use this non-word beyond the fact that i liked the way it felt in my mouth. i ought to change that line.
anyone getting this far will likely know about solar sails, and not need the parenthetical observation - not to mention the 'jet' vs 'rocket' debate. needed to use 'jet' while talking about something that in no way involved jets
Just what does 'robot convoy' mean? (Corporate, National, International...) a convoy of robots.
google dictionary: a group of ships or vehicles travelling together, typically one accompanied by armed troops, warships, or other vehicles for protection. "a convoy of lorries." synonyms: group, fleet, cavalcade, motorcade, cortège, caravan, company, line, train, procession
no idea what 'three West Highlands' means. (terriers, men, districts...?) terriers
an 'urban fox' in 'mountain fields' ? what i was trying to get across was the contrast between an urban fox and a rural one
(possibly 'in' for first 'its' in last line). yup, good call. i had debated between the two for a while myself.
I don't think the verse order is the most effective.
Perhaps consider;
Ashbourne, Jupiter, Rosie Hackett Bridge, Centauri, A boundary.
Not sure whether I could given the sestina form. :/