Why Should I Edit?

[shemthepenman]

The Stephen Fry? I'm through the first chapter, have to pick it up again, enjoying it so far. Ala rowens, Sad to say I got a retired hardback library copy on the cheap, sad it's not on the shelf but great for me.

Yeah, it's this one. Hey, I'm two pages into the first chapter now! Whoo hoo! Only 300 some pages to go

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some would like to keep the romantic idea alive that there is no logical causation and poems just appear in us [or from us] like spontaneous generation. they are opposed to the mapping of a process because it alienates them. there is the misconception that tradition says "if you do X, Y, and Z, you will write great stuff" the implication being "if you cannot [or have no inclination to] do X, Y, and Z, you cannot write great stuff". and of course, there is some fight back against this: "fuck you! i can write whatever i like and it will be great!" and not just from the pretentious. but this is just laziness.

Ok, keeping it very real, the poems that I've had the best success with here that people have resonated to, came out of free-writing sessions. I loved the "writing from the heart" exercise that Leanne set up, and I free write every day now. When I deviate from that, I don't have as great of luck. I try all the time to do exercises that I'm supposed to like "write a poem about this" "write a poem that uses this technique" "write something in this style" and it hardly ever works. My last flaming wipeout was because I was trying to do a new exercise. And that's ok, because I need to learn and try new things to see what works for me and what doesn't. But, honestly, for me the best stuff I've done did originate from within, and I can't always control it or make it appear. I hear what you're saying about consistency, and I don't know what to do about that except to free-write every day so that maybe once a week I'll glean something that I can use.

Now, that having been said, after the big mess of word vomit has been produced, that's when learned techniques are essential to try and mold it into something compelling. I love the idea of having a roadmap for the creative process, but that has never worked for me. But, I've only been writing since March, so take it for what it's worth.

I almost didn't post The Watch Man because it came out mostly intact from a frenzied free-writing session, and I only did minimal edits, and that seemed lazy!!! So, you're cracking me up with this laziness notion because I worked much harder on the flaming wipeout than the one that seems to be working. I don't think it's fair to automatically equate failure with laziness.

Are there a lot of lazy writers on this site? Do people just post any old thing here? I'm not sure.

i just lost a big long reply because my fucking browser is a complete fucking cunt, and i hope whoever fucking invented firefox's entire family dies a slow painful death, preferably of aids or cancer!

ok, so there was a blah blah bit at the beginning saying that you raised some interesting points and if it where my aim to produce an internally consistent philosophy from my previous comments i would have to pay them some serious thought. but that isn't my intention and i'm tired so some half-arsed thought will have to do.

i used the example of a highly gifted and talented poet in order to show how rules and guides and received wisdom etc. are not irrelevant. in fact one might say, as i think i did, it is the great poet's intuitive understanding of the standards, the dos and don'ts, what works what doesn't, that is their primary talent. again, like i said, they are a quick study. now, if one wishes to keep hold of some mystical 'unknown', then call it 'intuition'. but i think even this can be explained by genetics and biology. regardless, intuition is intuition and we all have it to varying degrees, but the point is if it is the case that the distinguishing characteristic of the great poet is their intuitive grasp of the fundamentals within the system [which allows them the freedom to be creative], then the rest of us have something to aim at. we may not have an intuitive understanding as deep and comprehensive as the gifted, but we can learn. it'll take us more time and practice, but if we are willing [and not completely retarded] nothing is stopping us from writing the greatest poetry ever written anywhere ever in the history of the universe and time itself! what will make this less likely is if we say "fuck your rules. i'm gonna wing it, see what happens." this is laziness.
as for your anecdotal argument based on your own experience, your success is probably part luck, part intuition and part unconscious application of conscious learning [remember, when i talk about rules, i am also including all the basics, spelling, punctuation, grammar, etc.]. but whatever it is, those poems are not being judge well because you have abandoned all standards. the opposite is the case. by hook or by crook you have hit them. so even if you do have a little poem gremlin living in your belly churning out these well received free-written poems, then he is most certainly referring to the rule book. and even then, YOU are consciously choosing which ones are worth keeping, right? so, even this choosing is against a standard, and i would say a common standard.

anyway, fading fast. i will just address your last point about laziness. i think you may have misunderstood me, or i am misunderstanding you. what i meant was, to give up on the process because it might involve some effort is lazy. the formula might look something like this:

i want to write a poem.
in order to write a poem remember do X, Y, and Z.
i cannot understand X, Y, and Z. i feel alienated.
maybe try a bit harder.
no, fuck you, man! i am the greatest poet that ever lived! i don't need to try!
yeah, but ya poem's shit, mate.
this is the greatest poem that ever was written! you just don't understand!
no, i studied creative writing at university and have a phd in english literature. i fully understand why, how, and even when your poem is shit.
well my mum says it's THE shit.
she has a phd in literature i presume?
nah, she's a waitress at hooters. i actually had a really difficult childhood. my father was a raging alcoholic, my biological mother was a crack addicted prostitute who would regularly invite men back to rape me for money to feed her habit. i ended up running away and living on the streets at 10 years old, begging for food and giving out blow jobs to dirty old men in even dirtier toilet cubicles for money to mainline myself into oblivion. . .
yeah, see, when you write 'roses are red violets are blue my mother's a slut and my life is poo', i don't think you are reaching the full potential of what you have to say. . .

i went off road a bit there, but you get the point. i wasn't calling you lazy. . . just like in the last thread when i wasn't calling you a genius. . . sorry, i couldn't help it. it just came out