a point arose about this is not poetry

[billy]

We must make a distinction between a critic and what is (should be) done here at the workshops. A critic will evaluate, yes she is capable of suggesting corrections and the like, but I think the intention of most critics has never been to see the artist improve, rather it is whether their work should be read/seen: should it enter the canon, be remembered? should we buy a ticket at the theatre? The mentor/group review situation is about improvement. With this distinction in mind, we must must take into account how the artist will react. A critic really only cares about the work not the artist, the mentor is concerned with the artist, why? Because it is she who creates the work.

actually i don't agree, while i don't really give a toss about the poet, i really do. not as a person but as "the poet" the idea of crit be it good or bad is so said poet can take in what's been said and hopefully improve, if said poet doesn't want to improve or help others improve then why bother coming here? i think many associate people who give suggestions as critics, and too some extent that's fair enough. but we're not critics per say, though we give critique. we are not doing a piece so other can decide to read or not to read it. we do it for the sole purpose of helping others and helping ourselves expand as poets. some like ray give feedback but only post their work (and good work it is) in the for fun section. i'm sure on the odd occassion he gains something from reading a good critique. (not all critique is negative) we're a workshop and possibly a meet place for would be poets. what i like about this place is the fact we have no pretensions of being anything else. i like it.

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i think this post is quite beautiful

Do you think the Sufi made up tales about poets?

I think you are young and idealistic, and very much in love with your own thoughts: theoretical thoughts that have little or no grounding in experience. I've been there, I get that. I envy you, but when I was in that place, I could hear nothing but myself, and all I wanted to do was fight. However, now I am too old and too tired to fight just for the sake of fighting, I fear you will have to find someone else to spar with.

Dale

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poetry is poetry and horseshit is horseshit

if you can't tell the difference it's most likely horseshit, if you think it's poetry it's most likely horseshit, and if someone tells you it's good poetry it's most definitely horseshit.
sufi was walking down the road with his student, in the middle of the road was a pile of horseshit, look master it's horseshit, yes child said the master, and gave him a bucket saying "though it is indeed horseshit, it's very good fucking horseshit and will go nicely round the base of my roses" the student asks, "is that so master" and the master laughs, "no son, it's horseshit...i don't have any roses" WTF

I think that for it to really be poetry it must be written in the metaphoric blood of the poet. It need not be shared. Need not in fact be read at all. It is a communion between the poet and the universe. Something most of us, never achieve. It is poetry because I, the poet, say it is. If it looks like prose to you, and I say it is poetry, then it is poetry. Lighten upn everybody.

Inquote='Todd' pid='142107' dateline='1380852168']
Okay, so when is something prose like without poetic elements, and when is it a prose poem?

Do people accept that there are prose poems? Or do they largely consider that category sophistry?

Take it further, is free verse poetry?

Is experimental poetry poetry or just "too-cute" horseshit?

We all critique. We all have opinions, and we're not shy to share them.

My take:

There's a lot of poems I see written that stay too close to the narrative. You read them and get a "and then this happened" feel. That's where I think they need to be edited to make them less like prose.

I think there are legitimate prose poems (some of Rimbaud springs to mind). That said, a lot of prose poetry could be found poetry in novels so I realize the definition can be blurred. My view of poetry for the little it's worth accepts that there are prose poems, with the caveat, that not every poem with prose elements is a prose poem.

Free verse: definitely poetry

Experimental: Sometimes, but with a great deal horseshit in the mixture.

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