06-16-2013, 07:15 AM
Sorry Ray I could not disagree with you more about PC.
I use the term PC as follows:
Being PC – politically correct. As dictated by the political left in our society and is usually viewed as being liberal, an ‘anything goes’ type group of people, very ‘open’ and accepting of all kinds of lifestyles—except that is, any lifestyles that oppose it.
The voice of PC designs and operates to control the thoughts and actions of others, it seeks to intellectually disable free thought and implement a system of force feeding homogenised robots who (being no longer able to think for themselves or offer any self expression) will readily accept and adopt the “new and approved” (PC) world view. I think it is plain enough that I use PC in a pejorative way.
Thus, as a person who is anti-PC, I would say that, not only I am vehemently against others trying to control how I think and act, but that equally I do not aspire to control how others think and act. So I am defiantly not “PC from the opposite stance” (and I might have got your position completely wrong but I read your comment on PC as being deliberately obtuse and a bit of a smug put down…my apologies if this was not what you meant at all) I would absolutely not describe myself the opposite end of the same stick of rock with PC written through it. I’m quite happy for you to think whatever you would like to think and within the laws of the land concerning moral behaviour, to do whatever you would like to do…I’m just not prepared to have someone else ram their thoughts down my throat and try and force me to claim them as my own and to only do the things that they approve of).
Hmm…is there really meaning in everything? I think I have some understanding of what you were trying to convey in this and it is a very valid comment you make …but I would add a mention for the meaning of chaos as is found in the universe or perhaps to bring this down to some focus by mentioning the fascinating aspects of white noise. Does white noise have meaning? (now I’m being obtuse perhaps). Yes, I am sure that when the writer of a poem writes a line he / she normally has (or should have) something in mind in regards to meaning. What I was trying to bring out in the discussion is the dodge ball effect of being intellectually put down for not understanding a poem whilst at the same time reading (or words to this affective meaning) “this poem is meaningless or un-accessible” in crit offered to others. Which is it? Does a poem need to convey meaning or not? Where would nonsense rhyme fit into this? These are my honest questions I am pondering over.
On a personal note I do not mean any disrespect to yourself (Ray) in this reply. I appreciate that you are an experienced poet with a valid point you have offered and you have my appreciation for adding your comments to the discussion. I’m just venting some frustration…did I mention I have a real problem
with the whole PC thing? 
(Oh and I am sure if it came down to it I would not have sufficient go in my brain to entertain the sort of mental jousting I see going on daily…you would undoubtedly win in a contest of quick witted intellect if you chose to enter into a tit for tat discussion…so please don’t beat me up, I don’t really want to play that game I’ll lose
!).
Hand in the air honest time now - in part, this is my unspoken / hidden agenda for this discussion. I have no problem with being told to muchie up and grow a thicker skin in order to take some harsh but honest crit on a poem. But playing dodge ball with smug comments and clever, cutting remarks and put downs is beyond my current energy or time allowances. I just want to have a go at writing poetry and I’m interested in any and every aspect of the process of producing a poem.
I’ve let slip what I think of PC
, so I might as well mention my views on meaning. I often steer well clear of offering any crit on poems where I am struggling to discern some sort of meaning. But having said that I think that the sounds within a poem are very or equally important to meaning so my inability to crit does not stop me enjoying them at some level. However I do question the validity of offering crit where meaning is unknown. (How can I offer an opinion on a word choice or a punctuation placement if I do not have a basic understanding of overall meaning, surely meaning is fundamentally key to such aspects?).
Sorry Leanne, did not see your comment till after I had posted this…as ever the voice of reason speaks. Will read again and try and calm down..I found my rattle but I should be Ok now i've had a rant.
I use the term PC as follows:
Being PC – politically correct. As dictated by the political left in our society and is usually viewed as being liberal, an ‘anything goes’ type group of people, very ‘open’ and accepting of all kinds of lifestyles—except that is, any lifestyles that oppose it.
The voice of PC designs and operates to control the thoughts and actions of others, it seeks to intellectually disable free thought and implement a system of force feeding homogenised robots who (being no longer able to think for themselves or offer any self expression) will readily accept and adopt the “new and approved” (PC) world view. I think it is plain enough that I use PC in a pejorative way.
Thus, as a person who is anti-PC, I would say that, not only I am vehemently against others trying to control how I think and act, but that equally I do not aspire to control how others think and act. So I am defiantly not “PC from the opposite stance” (and I might have got your position completely wrong but I read your comment on PC as being deliberately obtuse and a bit of a smug put down…my apologies if this was not what you meant at all) I would absolutely not describe myself the opposite end of the same stick of rock with PC written through it. I’m quite happy for you to think whatever you would like to think and within the laws of the land concerning moral behaviour, to do whatever you would like to do…I’m just not prepared to have someone else ram their thoughts down my throat and try and force me to claim them as my own and to only do the things that they approve of).
Hmm…is there really meaning in everything? I think I have some understanding of what you were trying to convey in this and it is a very valid comment you make …but I would add a mention for the meaning of chaos as is found in the universe or perhaps to bring this down to some focus by mentioning the fascinating aspects of white noise. Does white noise have meaning? (now I’m being obtuse perhaps). Yes, I am sure that when the writer of a poem writes a line he / she normally has (or should have) something in mind in regards to meaning. What I was trying to bring out in the discussion is the dodge ball effect of being intellectually put down for not understanding a poem whilst at the same time reading (or words to this affective meaning) “this poem is meaningless or un-accessible” in crit offered to others. Which is it? Does a poem need to convey meaning or not? Where would nonsense rhyme fit into this? These are my honest questions I am pondering over.
On a personal note I do not mean any disrespect to yourself (Ray) in this reply. I appreciate that you are an experienced poet with a valid point you have offered and you have my appreciation for adding your comments to the discussion. I’m just venting some frustration…did I mention I have a real problem
with the whole PC thing? (Oh and I am sure if it came down to it I would not have sufficient go in my brain to entertain the sort of mental jousting I see going on daily…you would undoubtedly win in a contest of quick witted intellect if you chose to enter into a tit for tat discussion…so please don’t beat me up, I don’t really want to play that game I’ll lose
!). Hand in the air honest time now - in part, this is my unspoken / hidden agenda for this discussion. I have no problem with being told to muchie up and grow a thicker skin in order to take some harsh but honest crit on a poem. But playing dodge ball with smug comments and clever, cutting remarks and put downs is beyond my current energy or time allowances. I just want to have a go at writing poetry and I’m interested in any and every aspect of the process of producing a poem.
I’ve let slip what I think of PC
, so I might as well mention my views on meaning. I often steer well clear of offering any crit on poems where I am struggling to discern some sort of meaning. But having said that I think that the sounds within a poem are very or equally important to meaning so my inability to crit does not stop me enjoying them at some level. However I do question the validity of offering crit where meaning is unknown. (How can I offer an opinion on a word choice or a punctuation placement if I do not have a basic understanding of overall meaning, surely meaning is fundamentally key to such aspects?).Sorry Leanne, did not see your comment till after I had posted this…as ever the voice of reason speaks. Will read again and try and calm down..I found my rattle but I should be Ok now i've had a rant.