What’s wrong with poetry?

[brandontoh]

Giving critique is a craft in itself. There are times when my mind just blanks out whenever I want to give feedback. Sometimes it lasts for a few hours, sometimes days.

I can't always manage it. In-depth critique of the kind that's needed in Serious, which is honestly my favourite kind, can be exhausting. Frankly, I think we're lucky to have anyone do it at all. At a sitting, it might take me half an hour or more for a single critique -- but in reality, I'll read the poem several times before I even attempt it, sometimes over days or even weeks.

Like I said before, there are other forums to post in. Please, if you really don't want serious critique and have no intention of listening to what's being said, just post in a different place.

Yeah I think that's a sore spot for the forums. People post in Serious, and when they get a thorough critique, they leave because they got pissed. The time spent on giving those people feedback is wasted.

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I write a poem. and yes, news, evolution is abused as a metaphor. Obviously. And not for the first time (social darwinism). Logically: if evolution is used in the most anarchic way, it follows devolution cannot make sense either. etc yaaawwwwwwwwwwwwwn. Need a drink. I am all for Dada but not if it is not even funny. ,-)

And yes this whole pseudo-poetological babbling makes nothing less than sense.

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what's wrong with poetry?

in nutshell...nothing, the problem lays with the would be poet. the fuss always seems to be about what the poet who wrote it meant, how they suffer for their art. on a site like this i#m really only interested if the poet is trying to improve, i'm long past anything impressing me, be it poetry or anything else. i love seeing someone do an edit or think about how they can improve. what for me defies logic, is someone posting a poem then after getting feedback asking if uch and such is allowed here. they ask because people leave feedback as to why something doesn't work. write any crazy way you like but don't then question whether or not you're allowed to. write as you will and give feedback as will. wehn you don't do or allow either you create the wrongness in poetry.

we should all be allowed to dislike something in your poem, don't be so fucking shocked if someone gives feedback about the silly fucking ideas you experiment with. who knows some may think what you did works. it's a lottory don't cry if you don't win.


think skin is what's wrong woth poetry...too many poets have thin skin and an elevated idea as to their own greatness.

Now that's what I call "case closed". Amen to that , too, billy.
Worryingly, though (to me) is the never ending (hopefully) stream of mixed ability contributors in Serious who ask for crit, post once, get crit...then vanish. I envisage a kind of Elephant's Graveyard full of souls dispossesed of all reason to live..who abandon poetry and take up butterfly collecting or needlepoint. That is not a measured response to crit and indicates to me an ulterior motive for posting...the wish for respect, recognition and self-aggrandisement is high on their agenda. I would be kind to them all but that reeks of positive discrimination. I would not wish that on anyone, particularly me...which is why I am here and not in another place. To improve in poetry is the reason we post...not praise: though faint praise is fiendishly effective...most do not see it and those who do keep quiet and keep posting.
Best,
tectak

To cut it short, Tom. I can tell you why they run away but you know that by yourself: your tone pisses them off. Who was it again just yesterday I think, who wrote that she was afraid of posting and if you and I could relate? (it was on the snower thread). Please reread.

You make valuable comments but sabotage yourself. I told you that in pm. By all means just keep cool. The fact that some or many people are vainglorious does not entitle you to (to quote myself) knock them out tysonishly. Who the fuck do you think you are?

So you write your poems for 50 years? So I shit and pee since I was born almost 50 years ago. Qualifies me how? Does that prove that my turds smell, or if you are so inclined, taste better than yours? Would not bet on it. ,-).


Once again: write your stuff.


cheeze meek and mild!!!!!

Though we are moving away from the poetry to the poet, that is the way of discussion. I want to bring it back, serge. You are the main offender here, it may be a language thing, but you are misunderstanding the points which I, and others, are making. Poetry exists on many levels, all of which are acceptable, in varying proportions to writer and reader. It is ONLY when the poet prostitututes him/herself by putting up their work for SERIOUS critique that a new "standard" comes in to play. It is that of SUBJECTIVITY...and it works both ways. Poet and critic are seperated by their own standards. It can be difficult to bridge the gap BUT if we are serious about improving, by ANY definition, a piece of work voluntarily (and that is quintessential) submitted for crit, then the difficulty is of no consequence because the bridge does not need to be crossed. The poet and the critic can remain true to themselves, giving and taking crit in whatever spirit they choose. It ill becomes either to turn and run the other way...as you did not and as some others do.
You will note that I made great emphasis of subjectivity. It is a good word. The only virtue we have as critics or poets is our opinion. How we arrive at our opinions is based on just one thing...experience; you and I and all of us are made this way. There is no other way.
Best,
tectak

English itself s a very iffy language. In a sense, poets and writers are finding order in chaos, especially in the case of poetry. In my opinion, subjectivity comes in most obviously when what one finds orderly is chaotic to another. I think that the problem with poetry is the shakiness of the language, which ironically becomes its greatest virtue.