11-25-2012, 11:00 PM
The point of everything I say is that poetry is more than words. More than writing. We have to poetically construct the world. But before we can do that, we have to construct ourselves; or at least realize what's going on with that "conditioning" talked about in another post. I can't seem to get past people assuming that I'm trying to explain my poems. Most of the poems I've put on here are frustrated, ironic love poems, which are only a small part of what I'm talking about poetry.
So much we do is unconscious. We're unconscious of so much of the little things each of does, collectively, each day that builds up problems for us and other people. To me, crafting our minds and actions are the most important part of poetry, before we start writing things down.
So the point of poetry, the point of writing poetry is to live at all. Another post talks of people writing poetry online that's only zombie poetry. That's a problem deeper than the lack of form and techniques they use, it takes a lot of work to be a person and a lot of work to make poems. And those things are starters for working on the world. And every time I say this to anyone, they tell me that's only my opinion.
I give some details about myself, to be able to explain how these simple opinions have cost me everything. I can't walk away as Billy says. The doctor said that my desire to get out of this town is a delusional attempt at escaping. He said that about poetry too. I can't drive, because of the blinding pain.
But these things make it clear to me that many people use poetry to deal with reality. But many use it to condition themselves and their immediate environment, when there are so many more important uses for poetry. Poetry in action, poetry in the rewiring of how people function internally and externally.
I should have put it, "condition themselves in their immediate environment". Which casts a veil over other important situations and understandings.
I do care about other people, and what other people think. And I do care about the lives of people, whether they're poets or not. I care as much about what they do in their poems as I care about what they say about themselves and other things. If you don't want zombie poetry, you have to consider your own opinions and experiences of things.
I'm being told I'm thinking too much about what other people think about my poetry. I'm also being told that I have to supply the demand for what people think about poetry for my poetry to be poetry.
When I'm writing in a discussion, I'm free to voice my opinions, however strongly I feel about them. I think most here agree, as implied in the "Zombie poetry" post, that Imagination and Creativity are important for philosophical and political and moral reasons.---And so I'm discussing the climate of these things, as I've experienced it. That many people don't have the means or even the health to get out of the environments they're trapped in. And to have ideas and tastes and beliefs, and Imaginitive and Creative needs that differ from those conditioned to that one environment can cost you everything. But people have Internet in these places, and they use it to voice these conditioned ideas and beliefs. And so these conditions spread. As so with TV and even books. Even telephone conversations.
"not at the expense of being a productive, cooperative member of the society we build by contributing to it."
Society, as is, is deeply flawed. There must be some misunderstanding, because I don't think Leanne, a teacher, is telling me that studying hard, reading, and trying to understand people and the world is a form of hedonism. And I believe that literature is a very important function in affectively changing the way people function. Religion has strong influence, but it's lost much of its power for many people. But there has to be a way to influence people: to work up some state of mind in tired, weak people that are addicted to drugs, or people that are buying and supporting products from companies that are exploiting and manipulating their workers and their customers in ways that it's hard to wrap my mind around. The mind is powerful. It can work wonders. I have to use poetry to keep myself functioning. I believe that it can be used to tap into human potentials. But poetry has to be experimental. It has to take risks. I think others here have argued that point too. And that is the point of these discussions. Discussing what each believes that poetry can and can't do, what poetry is and isn't.
All that anyone says here may only be their opinions. That's true of everyone, everywhere; though those opinions may be heavily conditioned by others whose opinions are also conditioned in ways they're not aware of.
But what gets me off on what most will consider rants is: Every time I state my opinions, someone makes the point to say something like "But that's only your opinions." Because, I think that's established from the beginning. But what's the point of having opinions, or Imagination of your own, if you're not going to put them into practice, by discussing or writing about them? Or by not supporting a society that so readily dismisses or counters the needs of less fortunate people all over the world? What is literature if not the opinions and creative imaginings and work of individuals?
It's only a doctor's opinion that I am crazy that allowed my family to have a piece of paper legally locking me in a hospital and force fed drugs if I say anything they think is strange or if I wear my beard too long for their taste.---But I'm not the only one. This conditioning Leanne argues against is dangerous. And sad. You have to some how shock your way out of it.
And poetry and working through poetry can do that. But if that's only my opinion, then I'm a minority of one. And I don't think that's true.
So much we do is unconscious. We're unconscious of so much of the little things each of does, collectively, each day that builds up problems for us and other people. To me, crafting our minds and actions are the most important part of poetry, before we start writing things down.
So the point of poetry, the point of writing poetry is to live at all. Another post talks of people writing poetry online that's only zombie poetry. That's a problem deeper than the lack of form and techniques they use, it takes a lot of work to be a person and a lot of work to make poems. And those things are starters for working on the world. And every time I say this to anyone, they tell me that's only my opinion.
I give some details about myself, to be able to explain how these simple opinions have cost me everything. I can't walk away as Billy says. The doctor said that my desire to get out of this town is a delusional attempt at escaping. He said that about poetry too. I can't drive, because of the blinding pain.
But these things make it clear to me that many people use poetry to deal with reality. But many use it to condition themselves and their immediate environment, when there are so many more important uses for poetry. Poetry in action, poetry in the rewiring of how people function internally and externally.
I should have put it, "condition themselves in their immediate environment". Which casts a veil over other important situations and understandings.
I do care about other people, and what other people think. And I do care about the lives of people, whether they're poets or not. I care as much about what they do in their poems as I care about what they say about themselves and other things. If you don't want zombie poetry, you have to consider your own opinions and experiences of things.
I'm being told I'm thinking too much about what other people think about my poetry. I'm also being told that I have to supply the demand for what people think about poetry for my poetry to be poetry.
When I'm writing in a discussion, I'm free to voice my opinions, however strongly I feel about them. I think most here agree, as implied in the "Zombie poetry" post, that Imagination and Creativity are important for philosophical and political and moral reasons.---And so I'm discussing the climate of these things, as I've experienced it. That many people don't have the means or even the health to get out of the environments they're trapped in. And to have ideas and tastes and beliefs, and Imaginitive and Creative needs that differ from those conditioned to that one environment can cost you everything. But people have Internet in these places, and they use it to voice these conditioned ideas and beliefs. And so these conditions spread. As so with TV and even books. Even telephone conversations.
"not at the expense of being a productive, cooperative member of the society we build by contributing to it."
Society, as is, is deeply flawed. There must be some misunderstanding, because I don't think Leanne, a teacher, is telling me that studying hard, reading, and trying to understand people and the world is a form of hedonism. And I believe that literature is a very important function in affectively changing the way people function. Religion has strong influence, but it's lost much of its power for many people. But there has to be a way to influence people: to work up some state of mind in tired, weak people that are addicted to drugs, or people that are buying and supporting products from companies that are exploiting and manipulating their workers and their customers in ways that it's hard to wrap my mind around. The mind is powerful. It can work wonders. I have to use poetry to keep myself functioning. I believe that it can be used to tap into human potentials. But poetry has to be experimental. It has to take risks. I think others here have argued that point too. And that is the point of these discussions. Discussing what each believes that poetry can and can't do, what poetry is and isn't.
All that anyone says here may only be their opinions. That's true of everyone, everywhere; though those opinions may be heavily conditioned by others whose opinions are also conditioned in ways they're not aware of.
But what gets me off on what most will consider rants is: Every time I state my opinions, someone makes the point to say something like "But that's only your opinions." Because, I think that's established from the beginning. But what's the point of having opinions, or Imagination of your own, if you're not going to put them into practice, by discussing or writing about them? Or by not supporting a society that so readily dismisses or counters the needs of less fortunate people all over the world? What is literature if not the opinions and creative imaginings and work of individuals?
It's only a doctor's opinion that I am crazy that allowed my family to have a piece of paper legally locking me in a hospital and force fed drugs if I say anything they think is strange or if I wear my beard too long for their taste.---But I'm not the only one. This conditioning Leanne argues against is dangerous. And sad. You have to some how shock your way out of it.
And poetry and working through poetry can do that. But if that's only my opinion, then I'm a minority of one. And I don't think that's true.