07-30-2012, 10:57 AM
i was expecting there to be a glut of symbolic answers which i could garner something from, looks like indie's it then. 
I agree that symbolism and archetypes are so ingrained. we're bombarded with them almost every hour of the day; through media, through life, through others. and we are what we eat (metaphorically speaking.) a child whose taught the blacks are niggers and really nasty people will until it's capable of independent thought believe it to be true. should the child write a poem about blacks under such an upbringing it may not be a very kind poem.
That said, i'm of a mind that while we've been immersed in symbolism all our lives, we become more discerning the older and more experienced we get. we know that blacks aren't any better or worse than any other race. we decide that while we may believe in god, he's one of our making; though many will still follow the archetypal gods, mothers, fathers, love, hate and other physical or emotional aspect of symbolism. how many love poems are almost exact. how many cutting poems. all genre of poetry has a preponderance to be of a likeness, and why not. we all live in the same world. we all have a supposedly five levels of consciousness, and the same five levels of friendship (it could be seven; i'm just winging it here ) i think poets in general write in a likeness of one another because all experiences in the modern world are now shared, responses are expected. it's the good poet that say; "hang on, all i'm doing it copying what everyone else is doing." they resalise that while we all go through the same life memes we don't always see, or deal with them the same way. (despite what cnn tell us, despite what the backslapping "that's simply gorgeous" crowd of bottom patting poetry forums tell us) most poeat write the same old shite; sometimes sybolic, because they see others getting patted on the back for it.
the good or improving poet who wants to write originally uses the same symbolism to say it differentlt, at times it's the good poets who create the symbolism of others. (just look at the cliche that abounds in poetry)
) at other times the poet just isn't conveying what their own symbolisms mean; they don't only make it hard for the dots to be joined together, they remove them completely...the bastards.
I love it when i have to stop a while and think and then get a "eureka you clever bastard" moment and all the vague symbols come together in a picture. often it only take for me to recognise one symbol, and all the rest unfold, even the one's that are new to me.
that's all well and good but it's no better a thrill that reading a good solid piece of verse. it's apples and oranges...and bananas. a different genre, and different style, a different concept. there just that, different.
I've often seen things in poetry that the poet never meant, that really had nothing to do with their poem. that's because i'm not seeing it with their eyes, i'm seeing it with mine. that my associations exist and cloud or tint the glasses i wear isn't something i question. why should i It's my POV were i to question it i'd be questioning it using other peoples symbolisms.
Many times i've left a reply to a poem extolling why i like it and how i see little or nothing wring with it (and try to give a reason why). someone then comes along and leaves feedback that points out many things which could be done in an edit. I may even ask myself how didn't i see that; but you know what? I didn't see it because i'm me. i'm not them. because i see now that something needs changing, it doesn't make what i saw any less. i've never wondered or want to about what we share as humans or why certain connections exist. all i need to know is who i am. I only need to see where i'm going
I agree that symbolism and archetypes are so ingrained. we're bombarded with them almost every hour of the day; through media, through life, through others. and we are what we eat (metaphorically speaking.) a child whose taught the blacks are niggers and really nasty people will until it's capable of independent thought believe it to be true. should the child write a poem about blacks under such an upbringing it may not be a very kind poem.
That said, i'm of a mind that while we've been immersed in symbolism all our lives, we become more discerning the older and more experienced we get. we know that blacks aren't any better or worse than any other race. we decide that while we may believe in god, he's one of our making; though many will still follow the archetypal gods, mothers, fathers, love, hate and other physical or emotional aspect of symbolism. how many love poems are almost exact. how many cutting poems. all genre of poetry has a preponderance to be of a likeness, and why not. we all live in the same world. we all have a supposedly five levels of consciousness, and the same five levels of friendship (it could be seven; i'm just winging it here
) i think poets in general write in a likeness of one another because all experiences in the modern world are now shared, responses are expected. it's the good poet that say; "hang on, all i'm doing it copying what everyone else is doing." they resalise that while we all go through the same life memes we don't always see, or deal with them the same way. (despite what cnn tell us, despite what the backslapping "that's simply gorgeous" crowd of bottom patting poetry forums tell us) most poeat write the same old shite; sometimes sybolic, because they see others getting patted on the back for it. the good or improving poet who wants to write originally uses the same symbolism to say it differentlt, at times it's the good poets who create the symbolism of others. (just look at the cliche that abounds in poetry)
Quote:As readers, have you ever bothered to connect the dots, or do you stick with the mechanics of rhyme, meter, grammar, punctuation, and surface appeal?both. as a reader i look for the pot of gold the poem's holding, i don't always find it though. Sometimes it's because i'm as thick as two short planks and my own symbolisms are the trees that stop me seeing the poets forest. (that actually sounds a little bit sexy doesn't it
) at other times the poet just isn't conveying what their own symbolisms mean; they don't only make it hard for the dots to be joined together, they remove them completely...the bastards. I love it when i have to stop a while and think and then get a "eureka you clever bastard" moment and all the vague symbols come together in a picture. often it only take for me to recognise one symbol, and all the rest unfold, even the one's that are new to me.
that's all well and good but it's no better a thrill that reading a good solid piece of verse. it's apples and oranges...and bananas. a different genre, and different style, a different concept. there just that, different.
Quote:I know my reaction was far from what Jack was relating when he wrote it. People tend to use descriptions and objects that are not only generally tied together, but express images and emotions that hint at the undercurrent of shared humanity. Have any of you ever recognized or wondered about why those associations exist in the first place?
I've often seen things in poetry that the poet never meant, that really had nothing to do with their poem. that's because i'm not seeing it with their eyes, i'm seeing it with mine. that my associations exist and cloud or tint the glasses i wear isn't something i question. why should i It's my POV were i to question it i'd be questioning it using other peoples symbolisms.
Many times i've left a reply to a poem extolling why i like it and how i see little or nothing wring with it (and try to give a reason why). someone then comes along and leaves feedback that points out many things which could be done in an edit. I may even ask myself how didn't i see that; but you know what? I didn't see it because i'm me. i'm not them. because i see now that something needs changing, it doesn't make what i saw any less. i've never wondered or want to about what we share as humans or why certain connections exist. all i need to know is who i am. I only need to see where i'm going