Poetry and innovation

[busker]

There’s only so much you can do with words
Pictures are better and have been around for a long time.
Now you have AI animation as a possibility, 

Take this non-AI animation of a fabulous Beatles number. What a beauty: https://youtu.be/5XwXliCK19Y?si=7SDm7JBOEEB593Ov

Would you consider adding pictures and videos to your poems using AI?

[milo]

There’s only so much you can do with words
Pictures are better and have been around for a long time.
Now you have AI animation as a possibility, 

Take this non-AI animation of a fabulous Beatles number. What a beauty: https://youtu.be/5XwXliCK19Y?si=7SDm7JBOEEB593Ov

Would you consider adding pictures and videos to your poems using AI?

Yah, I wrote a children's book a long time ago and through the years I have worked with a number of illustrators and never managed to get it illustrated so recently I considered using AI to illustrate it which is actually pretty easy and you do have a lot of control.  

Now of course, books with AI generated content are not eligible for sale on most platforms but, lets face it, I am never going to do that anyway.  So why bother getting it illustrated?  I don't know, I would like to see it complete, in my mind it was always illustrated and I don't know if I will ever truly settle the matter until I see it finished.

[busker]

Ray only posted poems with pictures after a point. It was an interesting concept.
The picture complemented the poem. It was sometimes enigmatic.

What use is a book without pictures, said Alice

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Next up: poetry in the metaverse

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Poetry in the metaverse, in immersive VR.
At first glance, it looks like poetry with video
But there could be more to it. Select the next line, and your poem goes a certain way

[milo]

Ray only posted poems with pictures after a point. It was an interesting concept.
The picture complemented the poem. It was sometimes enigmatic.

What use is a book without pictures, said Alice

When I came to the site Ray was only posting poems with pictures.  I think he stopped for a bit.  It was one of the reasons he only posted in misc.  It used to annoy me a bit TBH - can't say exactly why.

I don't think it would annoy me now.  I have interacted with him over email recently.  He has committed to popping in.

Also, we were doing ekphrastic poems here for a bit - not sure if you are actually interested but if I can find mine I will post it

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Ray only posted poems with pictures after a point. It was an interesting concept.
The picture complemented the poem. It was sometimes enigmatic.

What use is a book without pictures, said Alice

When I came to the site Ray was only posting poems with pictures.  I think he stopped for a bit.  It was one of the reasons he only posted in misc.  It used to annoy me a bit TBH - can't say exactly why.

I don't think it would annoy me now.  I have interacted with him over email recently.  He has committed to popping in.

Also, we were doing ekphrastic poems here for a bit - not sure if you are actually interested but if I can find mine I will post it

Also, this type of dialog is exactly why I thought we needed a coffee lounge - people used to get annoyed when we aimlessly meandered off-topic

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I posted it anyway, I can remove it if it bothers anyone - it certainly does disrupt the reading of the thread

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I removed it, it was too disruptive

[dukealien]

The strong point of poetry (or even prose, as in novels and such) is that they energize the reader's imagination to supply the missing inputs (sight, sound, smell, touch). We're poorer without it - not poorer in those inputs, but in being able to express them to others as well as, referentially, to ourselves.

And when we're wired for direct emotional or interpretational transfer? Some seem that way already. Maybe the mismatch between people, which written word only partially bridges, is important. Learning to connect can't be replaced by plug-and-play.

[milo]

The strong point of poetry (or even prose, as in novels and such) is that they energize the reader's imagination to supply the missing inputs (sight, sound, smell, touch).  We're poorer without it - not poorer in those inputs, but in being able to express them to others as well as, referentially, to ourselves.

And when we're wired for direct emotional or interpretational transfer?  Some seem that way already.  Maybe the mismatch between people, which written word only partially bridges, is important.  Learning to connect can't be replaced by plug-and-play.

I got so caught up in the opportunities I didn't even consider this

Kind of like a "just because we can doesn't mean we should" scenario.  I don't think I would be interested in having animations or images to my poetry anymore than having it put on a placemat or a coffee mug but I am still considering illustrating my children's book

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The strong point of poetry (or even prose, as in novels and such) is that they energize the reader's imagination to supply the missing inputs (sight, sound, smell, touch).  We're poorer without it - not poorer in those inputs, but in being able to express them to others as well as, referentially, to ourselves.

And when we're wired for direct emotional or interpretational transfer?  Some seem that way already.  Maybe the mismatch between people, which written word only partially bridges, is important.  Learning to connect can't be replaced by plug-and-play.

I got so caught up in the opportunities I didn't even consider this

Kind of like a "just because we can doesn't mean we should" scenario.  I don't think I would be interested in having animations or images to my poetry anymore than having it put on a placemat or a coffee mug but I am still considering illustrating my children's book

Also, with TikTok, video really is taking over everything and people are spending hours a day just scrolling away - glazed over.  They call it doom scrolling.  Not great.

[milo]

The strong point of poetry (or even prose, as in novels and such) is that they energize the reader's imagination to supply the missing inputs (sight, sound, smell, touch).  We're poorer without it - not poorer in those inputs, but in being able to express them to others as well as, referentially, to ourselves.

And when we're wired for direct emotional or interpretational transfer?  Some seem that way already.  Maybe the mismatch between people, which written word only partially bridges, is important.  Learning to connect can't be replaced by plug-and-play.

I got so caught up in the opportunities I didn't even consider this

Kind of like a "just because we can doesn't mean we should" scenario.  I don't think I would be interested in having animations or images to my poetry anymore than having it put on a placemat or a coffee mug but I am still considering illustrating my children's book

---

The strong point of poetry (or even prose, as in novels and such) is that they energize the reader's imagination to supply the missing inputs (sight, sound, smell, touch).  We're poorer without it - not poorer in those inputs, but in being able to express them to others as well as, referentially, to ourselves.

And when we're wired for direct emotional or interpretational transfer?  Some seem that way already.  Maybe the mismatch between people, which written word only partially bridges, is important.  Learning to connect can't be replaced by plug-and-play.

I got so caught up in the opportunities I didn't even consider this

Kind of like a "just because we can doesn't mean we should" scenario.  I don't think I would be interested in having animations or images to my poetry anymore than having it put on a placemat or a coffee mug but I am still considering illustrating my children's book

Also, with TikTok, video really is taking over everything and people are spending hours a day just scrolling away - glazed over.  They call it doom scrolling.  Not great.

So, I fiddled around with AI and after about 2 hours and dozens of prompts, I managed to come up with a look I was satisfied with but after the cover and the first page, I received a notice that I had used up my quota of the free version.  I may go back and do the rest and then post the whole thing to the site to see what you think, here is the cover and first page

[busker]

AI has to be paid for. I have a paid ChatGPT account. It’s anti American to use and not pay, like some gosh darned communist.

Otherwise, the covers are better than what most organic humans would’ve created

[milo]

AI has to be paid for. I have a paid ChatGPT account. It’s anti American to use and not pay, like some gosh darned communist.

Otherwise, the covers are better than what most organic humans would’ve created

First I tried with FB AI and it was awful- creepy even and it just ignored all attempts to correct course. Then I switched to Grok which is also free but it was also awful and the interface was awful. It also didn’t allow for true course correction. Finally I tried chatGPT. It took a few dozen prompts but it did make the changes I requested 

If you wanted to share your login I could probably finish it

[busker]

Blake had pictures
Eliot had allusion
Hopkins rediscovered sprung rhythm
Then you had the imagists. I like the idea, but find much of their work boring

Sticking to language alone, one innovation would be multi lingual poetry
Idioms don’t translate. So let’s transplant them and see the fun

Write a poem using foreign idioms and make it read like a natural poem, not a joke

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If you wanted to share your login I could probably finish it

where’s Joe Mcarthy when you need him??

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You did that with entre chien et loupe I suppose

[milo]

Blake had pictures
Eliot had allusion
Hopkins rediscovered sprung rhythm
Then you had the imagists. I like the idea, but find much of their work boring

Sticking to language alone, one innovation would be multi lingual poetry
Idioms don’t translate. So let’s transplant them and see the fun

Write a poem using foreign idioms and make it read like a natural poem, not a joke

---

If you wanted to share your login I could probably finish it

where’s Joe Mcarthy when you need him??

---

You did that with entre chien et loupe I suppose

lol - yah, I was going to ask exactly what the challenge was - I did it with entre chien et loup twice, once when I was first starting to write so it is a piece of juvenalia but perhaps I can post it and we can all work on bringing it up to modern standards.

Also, if you read my poem "fathers" it was created around the Spanish idiom al pan pan y al vino vino

[busker]

This is a poem that ChatGPT created about •electricity markets”
It’s quite impressive. I say so as a poetry aficionado and one that studiedelectricity markets

Markets

At five-minute intervals
the future is cancelled
and recalculated.

Demand arrives panting,
supply puts on a tie.
Somewhere a turbine spins harder,
somewhere a spreadsheet blinks red.

Nothing is owned, exactly—
only promised.
Megawatts exist briefly
as intentions.

Price is a weather system:
it forms offshore,
rolls in without apology,
flattens suburbs.

Scarcity is not a lack of wires
but a rumour that travels fast.
Abundance is silence
after a constraint lifts.

Traders speak of “signals”
as augurs once spoke of birds.
A spike is a moral failure
or an act of God,
depending on position.

Coal waits like an old king,
solar flares at noon and forgets,
wind is earnest but unreliable,
gas clears its throat.

And always the grid holds—
not by will,
but by rules so strict
they resemble faith.

Lights come on.
No one applauds.

[milo]

This is a poem that ChatGPT created about •electricity markets”
It’s quite impressive. I say so as a poetry aficionado and one that studiedelectricity markets

Markets

At five-minute intervals
the future is cancelled
and recalculated.

Demand arrives panting,
supply puts on a tie.
Somewhere a turbine spins harder,
somewhere a spreadsheet blinks red.

Nothing is owned, exactly—
only promised.
Megawatts exist briefly
as intentions.

Price is a weather system:
it forms offshore,
rolls in without apology,
flattens suburbs.

Scarcity is not a lack of wires
but a rumour that travels fast.
Abundance is silence
after a constraint lifts.

Traders speak of “signals”
as augurs once spoke of birds.
A spike is a moral failure
or an act of God,
depending on position.

Coal waits like an old king,
solar flares at noon and forgets,
wind is earnest but unreliable,
gas clears its throat.

And always the grid holds—
not by will,
but by rules so strict
they resemble faith.

Lights come on.
No one applauds.

I think you are probably correct.  Oh, for sure there are things about it that feel formulaic but it is probably better than 95% of people could write.  I don't want to reveal what about it impresses me but, youhave heard me prattle on for a bit, what would you think it is?

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Actually just read through it again and a ton of it is trash. chatGPT is depending heavily on abstractions without properly developing them or giving them time to breathe. This may be because much of web (or twitter or insta or whatever) poetry does the same. In addition, the anthropomorphication is overdone and never properly supported. It never pauses long enough to properly develop its metaphors but just rushes on one after another.

eh - whatever - why the heck am I dong this?

(might follow up with more in depth)

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You know - to go on again for no reason, but I feel there are 2 camps with regards to AI generated content and they are divided pretty heavily by age. The younger generation seems to see all the potential benefits and application of new technology while the older generation tends to mourn the loss of experiences they remember fondly.

Think of poetry analysis (or feedback or crit or whatever) - I love talking with people about their poetry. Not sure why, I just enjoy it, it has brought me a lot through the years. I think that is going to go away and there will not be a Gen Alpha milo (or other more prominent if you wish). Maybe it is for the best but it is tough to not feel the loss a little bit.

[Bunx]

I feel like a goal of mine in the past was to do a multimedia poetry book or zine. I often wish I had the guts (and now community my city doesn't have a poetry reading group) to record or perform my poems. Its silly I've performed countless shows musically but I always was to shy to read my poems out loud which is a big regret. If I ever were to present my poems in a book I'd definitely try to include photography, and maybe conceptual illustrations or messing with fonts. Though AI can be a useful tool it can also take over an idea.

[milo]

I feel like a goal of mine in the past was to do a multimedia poetry book or zine. I often wish I had the guts (and now community my city doesn't have a poetry reading group) to record or perform my poems. Its silly I've performed countless shows musically but I always was to shy to read my poems out loud which is a big regret. If I ever were to present my poems in a book I'd definitely try to include photography, and maybe conceptual illustrations or messing with fonts. Though AI can be a useful tool it can also take over an idea.

You know for a while, a bunch of pigpenners just recorded them reading the poem and posted it here.  It might make a nice stepping stone for you.

[milo]

Finished the book today and posted it, let me know what you think