Are you serious about poetry?

[O. M. Geezersnaps]

Hello, everyone. I'm curious about this phrase, "Serious about poetry." I've come across this as an accusation, that someone is not serious enough about poetry, in many contexts (here, but not just here). People will say things like, "If you haven't read X poet, then you're not serious about poetry." If you write free verse, if you've never written free verse, if you rhyme or don't rhyme, if you write for publication or pleasure, if you only write sonnets, if you write in the first-person lyric, etc. The list is endless. 

I'm assuming that we all have various other things that we could be doing with our spare time (berry picking, making Nutella ice cream, pleasuring ourselves), yet here we are. So what's the standard you hold, what's your litmus test to say "You are/are not serious about poetry because you...." Fill in the blank. Or, you could construe it another way: "I am serious/not serious about poetry because...."

[CRNDLSM]

All the students in this class write letters to their favorite authors and kurt vonnegut was the only one to respond.  I think this attitude would make him a serious poet, whether it's a good poem or not has always been an opinion, but I think he takes poetry seriously.


November 5, 2006

Dear Xavier High School, and Ms. Lockwood, and Messrs Perin, McFeely, Batten, Maurer and Congiusta:

I thank you for your friendly letters. You sure know how to cheer up a really old geezer (84) in his sunset years. I don’t make public appearances any more because I now resemble nothing so much as an iguana.
What I had to say to you, moreover, would not take long, to wit: Practice any art, music, singing, dancing, acting, drawing, painting, sculpting, poetry, fiction, essays, reportage, no matter how well or badly, not to get money and fame, but to experience [b]becoming[/b], to find out what’s inside you, [b]to make your soul grow[/b].
Seriously! I mean starting right now, do art and do it for the rest of your lives. Draw a funny or nice picture of Ms. Lockwood, and give it to her. Dance home after school, and sing in the shower and on and on. Make a face in your mashed potatoes. Pretend you’re Count Dracula.
Here’s an assignment for tonight, and I hope Ms. Lockwood will flunk you if you don’t do it: Write a six line poem, about anything, but [b]rhymed[/b]. No fair tennis without a net. Make it as good as you possibly can. But don’t tell anybody what you’re doing. Don’t show it or recite it to anybody, not even your girlfriend or parents or whatever, or Ms. Lockwood. OK?
Tear it up into teeny-weeny pieces, and discard them into widely separated trash recepticals. You will find that you have already been gloriously rewarded for your poem. You have experienced becoming, learned a lot more about what’s inside you, and you have made your soul grow.
God bless you all!

Kurt Vonnegut

[TranquillityBase]

I am serious about poetry to the extent that I try to write every day, and I show my poems to others for criticism.  But that's a recent development (2020), mostly as a result of retirement, but ignited by the death of my son, along with the discovery of Pig Pen.  

My youthful definition of "serious about poetry" was someone who makes writing poetry their main occupation and doesn't allow anything else to get in the way.  I believed that until I joined Pig Pen.

I always wanted to be a writer.  I chose poetry at age 16 after reading a biography of Dylan Thomas.  I was serious about it in a dreamy sort of way until I got married at 27.  I did lots of poetry workshops in college.  I got a few things published in little magazines.  I hung out with an artsy crowd. 

After getting married I became serious about other things (children, work) and lacked the ruthlessness to put those responsibilities into a back seat in order to continue to be "serious about poetry."  I am also lazy, so working all day and then writing all night wasn't going to happen.

I became a Sunday poet, though I wrote a lot less often than every Sunday.  And I wrote badly, because it was so infrequent and I did not show the poems to other poets for criticism and I did not try to publish.  So during that period, I did not consider myself "serious" about it.

I have a different view now, mostly due to exposure to Pig Pen.  I think you can be serious about it, but not neglect to be a responsible person in other, more important ways in life.

[busker]

Being 'serious' about something means that you're willing to invest the time. The participants on this forum are therefore, by definition, serious about poetry. Even those that come back after being banned multiple times, as various sock puppets.

[Miley]

"Art is too serious to be taken seriously." - Ad Reinhardt

[Mark A Becker]

If I feel like I need to do poetry, then I guess that makes me serious about it.

[O. M. Geezersnaps]

I used to write only free verse. I considered myself to be serious about poetry because I was always seeking to improve. I read poetry, I read about poetry -- but anytime I tried to learn meter, it was a dismal failure. So, I stuck to what I knew.

Then, I received some feedback on one of my pieces from an accomplished poet, and they questioned whether I was serious about poetry -- without meter or rhyme, they couldn't see any poetry in my poetry. Which is, of course, not what anyone wants to hear about their work, but I respected his opinion because it was genuine.

I stopped writing for some time. But, I guess everything has its season. I've picked up a copy of "The Ode Less Traveled," by Stephen Fry, and I'm just going to fail and flail until I get it right. Not because I hate free verse now, but because I've run out of arguments and the bottomless pit of self-loathing is an excellent motivator.

[rowens]

I'm not serious about poetry. But I see something in it.
Bukowski didn't write free verse, he wrote short stories that look like poems, with poetry as a theme. His poems aren't great, and that's what makes them effective. He's casting a spell. When people argue that the best poetry is written the way he writes, they are defending their mediocrity. Charles Bukowski and Daniel Johnston cast spells. Everything in its Right place.

A. R. Ammons writes of change and flow, and his poems are free verse in the true sense of free and verse.

T. S. Eliot is full of formal poetry breaking. The Traditions trying to hold, trying to coexist, succeeding and failing at once.

Robert Frost is a sensitive old curmudgeon at age 20.

[Quixilated]

“Serious about poetry” is too vague and very subjective.  It is difficult to answer succinctly.

Am I ever going to send my poems to a publisher? Unlikely. 
Am I ever going to introduce myself by saying I am a poet? Also unlikely. 
Do I workshop my poems?  Very rarely. 
Do I read books about poetry?  Not often enough (but I do like to buy them).
Am I going to keep writing poems? Indubitably. (Sometimes it’s the only way to make sense of the world in that ‘I don’t know what I think until I see what I say’ kind of way).
Do I think poetry is important?  Yes.  Absolutely I do.

I believe it is vital.  Humans need poets and poetry.  Poetry helps us see the world in new ways.  Poetry can change a mind.  It can answer a burning question or awaken a burning need.  It can show you the world from another perspective. It can turn your world upside down or make it right again.  It can show you the world from your own perspective but in the words you didn’t know how to say. Poetry is shared catharsis.  It creates empathy. It can inspire and educate.  It can make an idea easier to remember and more likely to stand the test of time.  Poetry is humans at play. It can be funny, beautiful, weird, haunting, insightful. It is important to keep poetry alive, to keep it relevant, to create new poetry acolytes. 
  
Am I a ‘serious’ poet.  As a writer of it, probably not. For me writing is mostly a way to stop my mind from spinning out. But am I serious about poetry?  Yes, I have very serious feelings about poetry. And I think it’s important to create spaces where people can learn to read and write and love poetry, to create spaces that make poetry available and interesting (and fun) to every new generation.

That being said, telling someone else that they aren’t ‘serious about poetry’ like it’s some sort of elite club with exclusive members is ridiculous.  Anyone can write a poem.  Requiring people to only write poems if they are ‘serous’ about it is like telling someone they aren’t allowed to sing unless they are a ‘serious’ musician. Poetry, music, and art, both the creation of it and the appreciation of it, belong to everyone. It’s part of the human experience.

[rowens]

Without Shem the Penman here to challenge me, or Semicircle here to encourage me, or newsclippings here to prove to me that there are beautiful women who appreciate horsehit.


There is poetry.





Shelley. Hugo, Ammons, Keats, Keyes, Ash-bery-burt-bury, Bukwoski, Jim Currl, Rubert Flowst, Samuel L. Coool-ridge, Tiny Time, Pessoa.




There is autiobiographical prose biorgraphic



I have been lately gettiing headrfcore into      QuentTON Crisp.









To answer your question, hild on a fiw mins . . .

---

I will answer the question. But I have to talk this way first, to get me in gear.

---

Yes.


I Will,,


hole


hold on

[rowens]

Intensive Critique section uses to be called Serious Critique.


I had forgotten writing the above comments.



Just kidding, I wrote the and remembered.





What is the etymology of 'Serious'.


Yes O. M. Geezer, I use my double and single quotes in eccentric and iconoclastic ways. As iconoclastic as you can be using quotes.

[rowens]

I forgot that when I was younger, late teens, early twenties, I wrote hundreds of poems in rhyme and meter, based on reading the English Romantics. I even used British spellings. I wrote them during road trips. Describing the grand ruins of deserted factories, pretty girls I met in passing or glimpsed from afar, lots about the moon, and the twilight realms between the mind and the brain. I wrote a long poem in the manner of Childe Harold's Pilgrimage from the point of view of an early 20th century hobo, making sure to add things about myself to confuse the narrative. And wrote my own vita nuova in English based on the forms in that book. All these poems are in a big green crate I bought at Value City around 2003.

[Mark A Becker]

Poetry lives here.

[TranquillityBase]

Perhaps the real question isn't about how you write poetry, but if you are as devoted to reading it as you are to writing it.  Poetry these days perhaps needs readers more than it needs writers.

I can't find it now, but Bukowski has a line in one of his early poems to the effect that

......God made many poets
but not much poetry......

[rowens]

I used to look at poetry websites for poetry magazines. The Guidelines for Submitting Poetry was usually a Cover Letter and reading poems in the magazine. I threw together a short paragraph for a Cover Letter, there's not too much to say about myself, it's like applying for a job washing dishes. But reading the poems in the magazine, I had no interest in doing that at all. Why would I? Nowadays, I look at the magazines, and I read one poem, and I know exactly what the poet looks like, down to which ear has an earring and where, if they have hair, they part their hair. Then I look at the picture, and I'm right. And, unless the poet is a female under 35 and attractive, I never think about them again.

There are too many ghosts haunting the mainspring to dally around with living people on a dead page. Now, if I was among those living poets, I'd associate with them. But anyone who tells me I have to sit and listen and form all comments in the form of a short concise question isn't worth my time. It's like online dating. There's somebody real behind the words, but if they aren't going to put out, they could as soon be dead to you.


The dead poets have vitality. They haunt doubly and thirdly more. Writing poetry is too easy. And people have help. And no one reads it but the help. And even they don't care too much.

But people, real people, read the dead poets. I was glad when John Ashbery died, because I'd been interested in breaking his code of obscurity for a while.


I know things about the dead.

[O. M. Geezersnaps]

Robert Frost is a sensitive old curmudgeon at age 20.

This is 100% true.   That's one of the reasons why I like him. He's an old soul, and I'm forever 12.

---

Yes O. M. Geezer, I use my double and single quotes in eccentric and iconoclastic ways. As iconoclastic as you can be using quotes.

You rebel, you. 

It's true. The real renegades don't use punctuation. They don't even use real words. They just use telepathy and white noise to implant their images directly into our brains; saves trees by not printing books.

---

Am I ever going to send my poems to a publisher? Unlikely. 
Am I ever going to introduce myself by saying I am a poet? Also unlikely.  -- Most people don't unless they love to lean in to awkward silence. I agree with Ali Wong: "I don't want to lean in, I want to lie down." 
Do I workshop my poems?  Very rarely. 
Do I read books about poetry?  Not often enough (but I do like to buy them). -- Financial support is vital. You're doing the Lord's work. 
Am I going to keep writing poems? Indubitably. (Sometimes it’s the only way to make sense of the world in that ‘I don’t know what I think until I see what I say’ kind of way). 
--same

  
And I think it’s important to create spaces where people can learn to read and write and love poetry, to create spaces that make poetry available and interesting (and fun) to every new generation. -- This must be why the muse trusts you as her steward 

That being said, telling someone else that they aren’t ‘serious about poetry’ like it’s some sort of elite club with exclusive members is ridiculous. -- And yet, as poetry becomes more of an academic endeavor, that's exactly what's happening. Seems like it's hard to get published unless you have a master's in literature from a reputable university. At least this is what I tell myself so I won't be disappointed when I never get published. 

Anyone can write a poem. -- Debatable. 

Requiring people to only write poems if they are ‘serous’ about it is like telling someone they aren’t allowed to sing unless they are a ‘serious’ musician. -- Counterpoint: if you attend a performance of Handel's Messiah, you'll notice how many people feel free to belt out the Hallelujah Chorus even though their neighbors greatly object to the damage being inflicted on their eardrums. 

Poetry, music, and art, both the creation of it and the appreciation of it, belong to everyone. -- You almost have me convinced. Almost....

[TranquillityBase]

Am I ever going to introduce myself by saying I am a poet? Also unlikely.  -- Most people don't unless they love to lean in to awkward silence. I agree with Ali Wong: "I don't want to lean in, I want to lie down." 

When at the dog park (my only daily venture into social interaction) once a person learns I am retired, I am too often asked "what do you do all day long?"  If I don't want to continue the conversation, I tell them I write poetry.

Anyone can write a poem. -- Debatable.   ---Cf. #TwitterPoetry

[rayheinrich]

My answer to the question: "Are you serious about poetry?" is another question: " Are limericks serious?"

[Fearful Symmetry]

My answer to the question: "Are you serious about poetry?" is another question: " Are limericks serious?"

Only if you’re serious about them 

I’ve only written anything that might be dubbed light poetry in the last couple of years, and I for one don’t think they required any less (CAUTION! HIGHFALUTIN WORD AHEAD —>) craft. Yes, the form of the limerick holds your hand, and its brevity means there’s likely less to chew on while you’re trying to sleep or wandering the grocery store, but otherwise it seems that you still tend to get out what you put in.

[O. M. Geezersnaps]

My answer to the question: "Are you serious about poetry?" is another question: " Are limericks serious?"

Only if you’re serious about them 

I’ve only written anything that might be dubbed light poetry in the last couple of years, and I for one don’t think they required any less (CAUTION! HIGHFALUTIN WORD AHEAD —>) craft. Yes, the form of the limerick holds your hand, and its brevity means there’s likely less to chew on while you’re trying to sleep or wandering the grocery store, but otherwise it seems that you still tend to get out what you put in.

It's seriously hard to be serious with limericks -- they always sound like a joke.