Into the Throes

[metalfan91]

"At this stage of History, either one of two things is possible: either the general population
will take control of its own destiny and will concern itself with community-interests,
guided by values of solidarity and sympathy and concern for others;
or, alternatively, there will be no destiny for anyone to control. "
- Noam Chomsky

Into the throes of competitive domination we are thrust
Inhumane forces directing human relations without and within
Putting deep desires on hold in order to survive
Barely alive as we continue to thrive, excessively it seems sometimes
Renting our lives out in exchange for existence
Insistence on deceiving ourselves into a comfortable prison

Quantifying life with monetized wood pulp product
An abstract construct directing the potential of you and I
Into spiritual strife; so too the poorest and richest
When culture is commoditized to fill profitable niches
Manufactured grief, like a cancer, has spread
Into usurped lands stained indigenous red

We are aliens on this planet yet it is our only home
We do not live in the environment,
But on a labyrinth of concrete, synthetic stone
Linear grids perfect for policing a numbed mass for there is no place left to roam
Our relation to the state is based on violence based on force
Hidden by corporate myths and advertised lore

Humanity is being filtered
The "good" separated from the "bad"
Dissent within work or education is not to be had
Spectatorship is the new favorite pastime of the nation
For when we are watching instead of participating
Those with power have free reign to dilute mass perception

If God gave us this planet why don't we accept
The duty of protecting it from those visibly inept
A god doesn't have to be real
It can be a metaphor for attaining the ideal
A zeal or passion or insistence
Of harmonious existence among human beings

That does not mean nobody should die
It means only acceptance of the essence of life
Which we consistently avoid with malignant annoyance
Trading true freedom for "security" and convenience
We did not mean to take this path but were led astray
And must redeem ourselves if we wish to remain

[milo]

"At this stage of History, either one of two things is possible: either the general population
will take control of its own destiny and will concern itself with community-interests,
guided by values of solidarity and sympathy and concern for others;
or, alternatively, there will be no destiny for anyone to control. "
- Noam Chomsky

Into the throes of competitive domination we are thrust
Inhumane forces directing human relations without and within
Putting deep desires on hold in order to survive
Barely alive as we continue to thrive, excessively it seems sometimes
Renting our lives out in exchange for existence
Insistence on deceiving ourselves into a comfortable prison

this is actually abysmal. The phrasing and faux poeticness is so overt and ill-contrived as to make it cringeworthy. There is no imagery at all. Poetry isn't what you say it is how you say it. This is all rhetoric.

Quantifying life with monetized wood pulp product

this right here is the worst faux-poetic construct I have read in a long time. "monetized wood pulp product"? We call it cash. Call it cash for god's sake!!

An abstract construct directing the potential of you and I
Into spiritual strife; so too the poorest and richest
When culture is commoditized to fill profitable niches
Manufactured grief, like a cancer, has spread
Into usurped lands stained indigenous red

it is interesting that you mention abstraction in a stanza that has the following abstractions: construct, potential, strife, poorest, richest, culture, riches, grief and the following concrete nouns:land (actually, this is abstract too as it is lands)

We are aliens on this planet yet it is our only home
We do not live in the environment,
But on a labyrinth of concrete, synthetic stone
Linear grids perfect for policing a numbed mass for there is no place left to roam
Our relation to the state is based on violence based on force
Hidden by corporate myths and advertised lore

Humanity is being filtered
The "good" separated from the "bad"
Dissent within work or education is not to be had
Spectatorship is the new favorite pastime of the nation
For when we are watching instead of participating
Those with power have free reign to dilute mass perception

If God gave us this planet why don't we accept
The duty of protecting it from those visibly inept
A god doesn't have to be real
It can be a metaphor for attaining the ideal
A zeal or passion or insistence
Of harmonious existence among human beings

That does not mean nobody should die
It means only acceptance of the essence of life
Which we consistently avoid with malignant annoyance
Trading true freedom for "security" and convenience
We did not mean to take this path but were led astray
And must redeem ourselves if we wish to remain

it gets worse as it goes on.This is a list of abstractions and faux-poetic concepts shouted at a reader in the most convoluted and over modified way possible. Sorry I can't be nicer. i am actually moving this to mild, this is in no way writing that is ready for serious critique.

[metalfan91]

"At this stage of History, either one of two things is possible: either the general population
will take control of its own destiny and will concern itself with community-interests,
guided by values of solidarity and sympathy and concern for others;
or, alternatively, there will be no destiny for anyone to control. "
- Noam Chomsky

Into the throes of competitive domination we are thrust
Inhumane forces directing human relations without and within
Putting deep desires on hold in order to survive
Barely alive as we continue to thrive, excessively it seems sometimes
Renting our lives out in exchange for existence
Insistence on deceiving ourselves into a comfortable prison

this is actually abysmal. The phrasing and faux poeticness is so overt and ill-contrived as to make it cringeworthy. There is no imagery at all. Poetry isn't what you say it is how you say it. This is all rhetoric.

Quantifying life with monetized wood pulp product

this right here is the worst faux-poetic construct I have read in a long time. "monetized wood pulp product"? We call it cash. Call it cash for god's sake!!

An abstract construct directing the potential of you and I
Into spiritual strife; so too the poorest and richest
When culture is commoditized to fill profitable niches
Manufactured grief, like a cancer, has spread
Into usurped lands stained indigenous red

it is interesting that you mention abstraction in a stanza that has the following abstractions: construct, potential, strife, poorest, richest, culture, riches, grief and the following concrete nouns:land (actually, this is abstract too as it is lands)

We are aliens on this planet yet it is our only home
We do not live in the environment,
But on a labyrinth of concrete, synthetic stone
Linear grids perfect for policing a numbed mass for there is no place left to roam
Our relation to the state is based on violence based on force
Hidden by corporate myths and advertised lore

Humanity is being filtered
The "good" separated from the "bad"
Dissent within work or education is not to be had
Spectatorship is the new favorite pastime of the nation
For when we are watching instead of participating
Those with power have free reign to dilute mass perception

If God gave us this planet why don't we accept
The duty of protecting it from those visibly inept
A god doesn't have to be real
It can be a metaphor for attaining the ideal
A zeal or passion or insistence
Of harmonious existence among human beings

That does not mean nobody should die
It means only acceptance of the essence of life
Which we consistently avoid with malignant annoyance
Trading true freedom for "security" and convenience
We did not mean to take this path but were led astray
And must redeem ourselves if we wish to remain

it gets worse as it goes on.This is a list of abstractions and faux-poetic concepts shouted at a reader in the most convoluted and over modified way possible. Sorry I can't be nicer. i am actually moving this to mild, this is in no way writing that is ready for serious critique.

Thanks for the honest considerations. I know this isn't poetry in the traditional sense. Can you tell me specifically what you mean by "faux-poeticness." I wrote "monetized wood pulp product" to rhyme with the "i" in "quantifying" and "life", and alliterated with the "p". Also, I feel it conveys the blind faith we put into fiat currency better than"cash." I'll admit that I'm not a student of poetry in its technical aspects, nor do I study its devices. Although your comment is helping understand what this forum is about and how different perceptions can be. I've posted this on another forum an was met only with praise. I'm simply stating the truth and am in no way trying to boast, just to show how different reactions can be toward a certain write. Perhaps it was more for the thematic elements and sentiments than the form, which I'm guessing you don't like. I know this piece is polarizing, to say the least, but I hope others can appreciate it.

Thanks for your time,

Daniel

[rowens]

I like this, but I don't think it's any good. It makes some good points, but I don't remember any of them. I read it, and I was bored. Then I had to start drinking again, because whether I ever read this poem or not, I know things are hard. Things are hard, and you got it. You know it. And though I'm drunk, the poem is still no good. It doesn't have that music that makes being drunk a sensible thing to do. It doesn't do much at all.

When you say spectatorship is the new favorite pastime, you're right and wrong. Wrong because it's not new; right because it's a new kind of new.

I'm not drunk, I'm just drinking. Everything you say is right, and still it bores me.

The message is fine. There is absolutely nothing wrong with it. But the poem is boring. The message is made boring by the poem. And that's fine if that's what people are into.

[ChristopherSea]

I believe this was meant to be a spoken word piece and as such loses some steam in poetry form without hearing the emotional voice behind the words. It's very difficult to pull off an interesting effective political diatribe. I admit that I laughed at monetized pulp, but it did stick in my head. I agree that this one has too many descriptors and it meanders too much in theme from existentialism, to economics, to environment, to god give us earth, to god may not exist (or he is a metaphor), to death, then freedom and whatever else I missed. However, there seems to be an effort to express passion. Therefore, I would recommend capturing one of the themes here and use to create your monolog, but clarify the message and then elaborate.

[metalfan91]

I believe this was meant to be a spoken word piece and as such loses some steam in poetry form without hearing the emotional voice behind the words. It's very difficult to pull off an interesting effective political diatribe. I admit that I laughed at monetized pulp, but it did stick in my head. I agree that this one has too many descriptors and it meanders too much in theme from existentialism, to economics, to environment, to god give us earth, to god may not exist (or he is a metaphor), to death, then freedom and whatever else I missed. However, there seems to be an effort to express passion. Therefore, I would recommend capturing one of the themes here and use to create your monolog, but clarify the message and then elaborate.

Thanks for reading and critiquing. I agree, this would be better suited as a spoken word piece, as you pointed out. I did not create it with that in mind. Thanks for trying to look into the themes. I may have overshot the mark by trying to encompass many different ideas and combining them into one piece, but I stand by it. I do not like art that has a "message," you know what I mean? This may have a sort of message, but I see it as more of an exploration from my perspective. Thanks again.

[milo]

"At this stage of History, either one of two things is possible: either the general population
will take control of its own destiny and will concern itself with community-interests,
guided by values of solidarity and sympathy and concern for others;
or, alternatively, there will be no destiny for anyone to control. "
- Noam Chomsky

Into the throes of competitive domination we are thrust
Inhumane forces directing human relations without and within
Putting deep desires on hold in order to survive
Barely alive as we continue to thrive, excessively it seems sometimes
Renting our lives out in exchange for existence
Insistence on deceiving ourselves into a comfortable prison

this is actually abysmal. The phrasing and faux poeticness is so overt and ill-contrived as to make it cringeworthy. There is no imagery at all. Poetry isn't what you say it is how you say it. This is all rhetoric.

Quantifying life with monetized wood pulp product

this right here is the worst faux-poetic construct I have read in a long time. "monetized wood pulp product"? We call it cash. Call it cash for god's sake!!

An abstract construct directing the potential of you and I
Into spiritual strife; so too the poorest and richest
When culture is commoditized to fill profitable niches
Manufactured grief, like a cancer, has spread
Into usurped lands stained indigenous red

it is interesting that you mention abstraction in a stanza that has the following abstractions: construct, potential, strife, poorest, richest, culture, riches, grief and the following concrete nouns:land (actually, this is abstract too as it is lands)

We are aliens on this planet yet it is our only home
We do not live in the environment,
But on a labyrinth of concrete, synthetic stone
Linear grids perfect for policing a numbed mass for there is no place left to roam
Our relation to the state is based on violence based on force
Hidden by corporate myths and advertised lore

Humanity is being filtered
The "good" separated from the "bad"
Dissent within work or education is not to be had
Spectatorship is the new favorite pastime of the nation
For when we are watching instead of participating
Those with power have free reign to dilute mass perception

If God gave us this planet why don't we accept
The duty of protecting it from those visibly inept
A god doesn't have to be real
It can be a metaphor for attaining the ideal
A zeal or passion or insistence
Of harmonious existence among human beings

That does not mean nobody should die
It means only acceptance of the essence of life
Which we consistently avoid with malignant annoyance
Trading true freedom for "security" and convenience
We did not mean to take this path but were led astray
And must redeem ourselves if we wish to remain

it gets worse as it goes on.This is a list of abstractions and faux-poetic concepts shouted at a reader in the most convoluted and over modified way possible. Sorry I can't be nicer. i am actually moving this to mild, this is in no way writing that is ready for serious critique.

Thanks for the honest considerations. I know this isn't poetry in the traditional sense. Can you tell me specifically what you mean by "faux-poeticness." I wrote "monetized wood pulp product" to rhyme with the "i" in "quantifying" and "life", and alliterated with the "p". Also, I feel it conveys the blind faith we put into fiat currency better than"cash." I'll admit that I'm not a student of poetry in its technical aspects, nor do I study its devices. Although your comment is helping understand what this forum is about and how different perceptions can be. I've posted this on another forum an was met only with praise. I'm simply stating the truth and am in no way trying to boast, just to show how different reactions can be toward a certain write. Perhaps it was more for the thematic elements and sentiments than the form, which I'm guessing you don't like. I know this piece is polarizing, to say the least, but I hope others can appreciate it.

Thanks for your time,

Daniel

faux-poetics are constructs that are created to make writing look more poetic but actually add little value, creating opposite effect.

as for different reactions - yah, you are going to get those. Some would say that everyone's opinion counts. I don't agree. I believe quality is a value inherent in writing and great poetry will be great even if not a single person recognises it while inferior writing will have (or rather lack) specific quantifiable elements that can be cited even if every person says it is great.

It is not always a popular standpoint.

[ChristopherSea]

I meant to make a comment that I shared with another here, regarding your statement that this piece received great praise on another site. On most 'other sites' people are vying for audience, star ratings or some absurd and meaningless top ten list. Anything that they say about your poetry has almost no validity and absolutely no valuable critique. They are looking for reads, ratings, acceptance and popularity. Here you receive the honest truth, which can bite, but you can work to edit a much better piece. I do feel that everyone needs to do a better job at sharing their impressions of a piece, as edits alone don't help me perfect an emotive poem if the critic says nothing about the theme. Finally, you can ask a moderator to move your poem to miscellaneous or fun if you don't want any heavy critique. Hang in here!

[btrudo]

I meant to make a comment that I shared with another here, regarding your statement that this piece received great praise on another site. On most 'other sites' people are vying for audience, star ratings or some absurd and meaningless top ten list. Anything that they say about your poetry has almost no validity and absolutely no valuable critique. They are looking for reads, ratings, acceptance and popularity. Here you receive the honest truth, which can bite, but you can work to edit a much better piece. I do feel that everyone needs to do a better job at sharing their impressions of a piece, as edits alone don't help me perfect an emotive poem if the critic says nothing about the theme. Finally, you can ask a moderator to move your poem to miscellaneous or fun if you don't want any heavy critique. Hang in here!

coments deleted

This is a great topic for the discussion forum, please start a thread there. Comments inthe critique forum should focus on the poem.

/mod

[ChristopherSea]

[/color]coments deleted. The critical forums are for discussing the poem, take it to the pig's arse.

[btrudo]

coment deleted, please use the critical forums to discuss the poem.

/mod

[btrudo]

Center align has a bad rep among more serious writers. Whether this reputation is justified is a separate issue. You can keep the center align, but be aware some peeps have already tuned out right from the start.
"At this stage of History, either one of two things is possible: either the general population
will take control of its own destiny and will concern itself with community-interests,
guided by values of solidarity and sympathy and concern for others;
or, alternatively, there will be no destiny for anyone to control. "
- Noam Chomsky
You have the epigraph from Chomsky. I think this sets the stage well.

Two basic patterns is to go from the specific (the image) to the general (the abstract) or vice-versa. Of course, there is a lot of in between.

This is a piece you have to be careful with. There are a number of people who will like this just because the agree with the theme of the poem.

Into the throes of competitive domination we are thrust
After the abstraction of the epigraph, I really do think you should thrust the reader into something concrete. Also first person is usually a better point of view for a rant.

Thrust into the supermarket aisles, I stare at ten boxes of Corn Flakes.

I'm not suggesting this is a great opening, but start with an image, which can illuminate and ground the reader.

Inhumane forces directing human relations without and within
Which inhuman forces? You have to show me.
Putting deep desires on hold in order to survive
Which deep desires?
Barely alive as we continue to thrive, excessively it seems sometimes
barely alive and thrive...a clash is good if the poem explores it, but this doesn't explore it
Renting our lives out in exchange for existence
This is an insightful point, but the poem has just said it. It hasn't shown it.

Perhaps...
Working two jobs sixteen hours a day to pay for the roof
over the head that eats one meal at home. Count those hours of sleep:
one, two, three, four, five, and then wake--it's another day of jobs,

Insistence on deceiving ourselves into a comfortable prison
but at least, the weekend brings a can of beer and football on TV.

Quantifying life with monetized wood pulp product
I said elsewhere, this is a really good line, but you can drop the monetized
An abstract construct directing the potential of you and I
Into spiritual strife;
okay to go off into the abstract from time to time

so too the poorest and richest
When culture is commoditized to fill profitable niches
but now you have to bring this back to the lives we live

Manufactured grief, like a cancer, has spread
What grief?
Into usurped lands stained indigenous red
the cancer bit is a nice simile, but carry the metaphor. Cancer doesn't stain red, it out-competes normal cells and uses the body's resources till normal function stops.

We are aliens on this planet yet it is our only home
In what ways?
We do not live in the environment,
But on a labyrinth of concrete, synthetic stone
this line and the next are better in terms offering some tangible to the reader
Linear grids perfect for policing a numbed mass for there is no place left to roam
I actually like the linear grids; it's those crazy curvy roads that lead to nowhere which drive me nuts. But the point about straight edges could be well-taken. Nature doesn't do many straight edges; compare canals to rivers.
Our relation to the state is based on violence based on force
Hidden by corporate myths and advertised lore
Geez, you have a wealth of things you could showcase here, but you don't. Give me a few myths and advertised lore.

Humanity is being filtered
The "good" separated from the "bad"
Dissent within work or education is not to be had
Spectatorship is the new favorite pastime of the nation
Dance with the Stars...peeps even watch other peeps play video games
For when we are watching instead of participating
Those with power have free reign to dilute mass perception

If God gave us this planet why don't we accept
The duty of protecting it from those visibly inept
A god doesn't have to be real
It can be a metaphor for attaining the ideal
A zeal or passion or insistence
Of harmonious existence among human beings
This may be okay, but you have to earn this with some good images before and after.

That does not mean nobody should die
It means only acceptance of the essence of life
Which we consistently avoid with malignant annoyance
malignant...good opportunity to bring back the cancer, but the poem doesn't
Trading true freedom for "security" and convenience
so what is true freedom?
We did not mean to take this path but were led astray
And must redeem ourselves if we wish to remain
I really feel this is calling for ending on an image or perhaps a literary allusion.

Here we go round the prickly pear and end.

...
Reading "Hollow Men" by T.S. Eliot and some Robinson Jeffries would be good illustrations of using images to spotlight the decay of modern society.

a few thoughts,
Bill